As expected, the only high-end option is 4090.
For mid-end, AMD’s 6000 series are still killing it.
And Intel could be our new hope for entry-level.
I disagree with the 7800xt part tho. Yea naming scheme is as always manipulative but its not that bad… There is no bad product. only bad pricing. And the new card is the same as its older counterpart. BUT its 200 dollars lower on MSRP which is a huuge difference. completely going away from its older brothers price range. Its the same debait as the RX7/RX8 one is much slower but its half the money at launch times. And compared to 4060 and 4060ti which fails on both counts to be good priced and not be a manipulative 50 tier Die parading as a 60 tier product. Its value proposition of 7800xt is good
6500xt is a bad product.
It’s one of the most efficient cards out there, about twice the performance/watt of Nvidias offerings in the price bracket, and the price is low enough that it doesn’t matter much that the gaming performance isn’t great. For someone that needs a cheap GPU for an HTPC or server with no iGPU, it’s not bad. Even runs some older games and emulators well enough.
Even runs some older games and emulators well enough.
More than “well enough”. It will easily max out PS3 era games, and will play PS4 era at medium/high. Definitely not good for current gen, but it’s a great card if you know that’s what you want.
Yea naming scheme is as always manipulative but its not that bad… There is no bad product. only bad pricing
manipulative 50 tier Die parading as a 60 tier product
Correct me if I am wrong: you are saying that it is okay for the 7800xt to be a weak gpu for it’s name, but it is not okay for the 4060 to be a weak gpu for it’s name? Afterall, the 6800xt used Navi21 and the 7800XT is on Navi 32.
I think you left the difference of 4060ti vs 7800xt. Its the same as 3060ti in performance and at 400 dollars. Which is the same as 3060ti on sellers now. And for a node shrink and genertion uplift. You gain nothing because its a 50 class die. But it doenst have 50 class die pricing. Navi32 7800xt has 7700xt or 7800 non Xt die. But has 7700xt pricing
7800xt should be 7700xt. But 7800xt is priced as 7700xt (comparing to 6800xt msrp).
4060 is priced as 4060 while it should be named and priced as 4050.
Actually the RX 7800XT should’ve been called RX 7800, because both has 60CUs and 16GiB of VRAM, and the 7800XT has significant gains over the 6800.
I don’t get why AMD released a successor to a previously XT named GPU as non-XT, the RX 7600 (successor of the RX 6600XT, both with 32CUs), and then released a previously non-XT GPU as XT, the RX 7800XT (successor of the RX 6800, both with 60CUs).
There is no bad product. only bad pricing.
Pretty brave to leave this comment in the comment section of a Gamers Nexus video, when they specifically made a video about nad products no matter the price, lol.
This is a quote from Linus Sebastian. One of his many bad takes.
There are absolutely bad products, and badly priced good products.
That quote is probably older than Linus himself.
Its a 150$ lower msrp not 200
4060 Ti is objectively a bad product.
Nope, again just priced badly. All of the Ada Lovlace chips are efficient and performant for what they are.
3060 Ti is literally better.
4060 Ti is much more efficient + that frame generation. The difference in performance is not material, really. I know imagining is hard for some people but please do try. If you can’t judge chips on merit without marketing names and prices, just imagine it would cost $100 cheaper and be called 4060. Wouldn’t it be impressive then? So much more perfromant, so much more efficient.
So, again, a great product but a bad pricing.
Thanks to the crypto/AI price gouging, nVidia have been allowed to up tier their GPUs. If the 4060 was released as the 4050 that it probably should’ve been then the 4060 Ti could’ve lost the “Ti” part and they could’ve sold the 16GB version as the plain Ti - with the corresponding price corrections.
4060 Ti is objectively a bad product.
3060 Ti is literally better.
it literally is not, 4060 Ti is 11% faster at 1080p, 9% faster at 1440p, and 6% faster at 2160p.
the reduced memory bandwidth is already baked into these performance figures, and apart from some edge-cases like emulated PS3/wii at 16K resolution the 4060 Ti is still generally a faster card. not that much faster, but, it’s not slower either.
4060 Ti has 128-bit bus width, meaning it will age poorly in the long term. 4060 was designed to be planned obsolescence.
3060 Ti will last you longer as future games will demand more memory bandwidth.
that’s what I said, the memory bandwidth is already baked into the numbers you see. the cache increases mean that you don’t need as much actual memory bandwidth - it’s the same thing AMD did with RDNA2.
AMD reduced the memory bus by 25% on the 6700XT relative to its predecessor and 33% on the 6600XT relative to its predecessor, so, if you think that will cause those cards to age more poorly…
RDNA 2 is dogshit as well, lmao. I’m not defending them either.
The cache increase didn’t do shit since the previous generation Ampere performs better at 4K than Ada Lovelace.
Build Check anyone? About to upgrade the gaming PC this black Friday.
I still think is unfair to avoid results with FSR/DLSS/FG/XESS when available. I have a 4060 and it was the best use of my budget, specially considering future games. I don’t buy a technology to not use it.
I still think is unfair to avoid results with FSR/DLSS/FG/XESS when available
If you don’t understand why, I don’t know what to tell you…
That is not solely dependent on the hardware… 🤦🏾♂️
Nope. You won’t be able to use next version of DLSS on your 4000 series, so it’s always the best the show how fast is GPU in pure raster to see how much actual power it has.
Downvotes for the truth… Poor Nvidia fanshills copin xD
Poor Nvidia fanshills copin xD
These sort of comments are not welcome on /r/hardware
nvidia will come up with some other funky software bs to try to get people to upgrade to a new gen, while artificially preventing it from running well on previous gen cards or competing products. physx, gameworks, dlss, nvfbc, etc.
Yup.
DLSS is why I bought a 4060 over a 7600. Mostly play e-sports games, so the cache offsets the bandwidth loss from a 3060, while DLSS is much better than FSR at going from 720p -> 1440p, as I wanted the increase over 1080p for daily usage.
I have a 4060 and it was the best use of my budget, specially considering future games.
A 6700 XT is still faster overall when AI upscaling is taken into account, and considerably faster when it’s not, and has 4GB more VRAM. If performance in future games was the main consideration, that would’ve been the obvious choice in that price range and not the 4060.
A 6700 XT is still faster overall when AI upscaling is taken into account
But the upscaling on 6700 XT is poor. FSR is so full of shimmering and artifacts that it’s kind of a deal breaker. DLSS actually looks great. Based on my experience with both, id rather use DLSS at performance/balanced than FSR at quality, in which case the 4060 will not only give better visuals but more FPS.
You can actually play in 1440p with 6700xt though. You cannot with 4060. The better memory bandwidth and capacity coupled with better performance cannot be simply solved by upscaling. 4060 is so bandwidth starved that it immediately falls off in any resolution greater than 1080p.
I’m able to play every game at 1440p.
Its not real 1080p. Its upscaled 1080p. Also, lol circlejerking over DLSS again.
Pretty wild no one seems to care about native anymore
Yeah, DLSS and other tech are a crutch. This weird obsession with it shows how susceptible some people are to marketing.
Anyway, generally speaking, those techs can improve performance 50-100% IIRC.
Because native with TAA is worse than dlss quality.
Its not that. Notice that only people that purchased 960 variants care about that.
Depends on the class if card. I don’t think either of them are good at 1080p output. At 1440 fsr is a clear loss to the point where it’s arguable if it should be enable. 4k is the only area where it’s even reasonable to do a comparison, where dlss is better but fsr is okay.
If only NV wasn’t so stingy with the VRAM. I don’t know how I feel about having DLSS, FG and RT but also blurry textures because the card runs out of VRAM.
It’s not unfair. It’s the only logical way to do the comparison.
It gets too complicated to do a comparison with upscaling technologies when there are so many constantly changing variables and a subjective aspect in regards to comparing different technologies. Which version of upscaling do you use? What if the game gets updated? What if the upscaling technology gets updated? How many frames of DLSS 2.x/3.x are comparable to FSR 2.x/3.x frames? At what quality levels? What if a game adds support for one technology but not another? I mean to even consider using upscaling numbers is ridiculous since each implementation is different and constantly changing. You’re no longer able to objectively compare these products.
Yes, but we also don’t compare cars by speed and comfort of the seat and say everything else is too complicated
But they are obviously considering it. If they werent there would be no mention of Nvidia cards other than the 4090 because they are always slower at the same price.
I’m interested in the 4070 ti, but unsure it’s worth upgrading from 6800xt. Also I worry about vram. I game at 3440 x 1440. Just upgraded the the UW monitor that’s part of reason I’m looking for an upgrade. Also I just find fsr looks pretty meh and my gpu struggles to do native now in UW.
Wait until the 4070 Ti Super, rumours say it’ll have 16GB vs 12 on the 4070 Ti, if that’s true it might be worth it, depends on the price completely tho.
4070 ti retails for 1100 already in my country. 7900 xtx for 1300. So as long as it’s not too much more I guess.
In that case if you have the extra dough you could maybe go for a 7900 XTX? It blows the 4070 Ti out of the water and trades blows with the 4080, it’s also got a nice bump in specs but it will be lacking in things like Blender.
Rumors are that the 4070ti Super will have 16GB, no? Depending on pricing, that might be a good fit.
if you’re the sort that upgrades every generation then vram shouldn’t be a huge concern.
You definitely should not upgrade until the 40-series supers hit. They are rumored to start around January. If the rumors are true the 4070 Ti Super will have 16 GB of VRAM, a healthy performance boost, and pretty much make the 4080 irrelevant. And if you are happy with just a 4070 Ti the supers will force the prices down.
4070ti super coming out soon they say. 16GB.
What is your current CPU mate ? I’d suspect it might have an impact
I would wait at least one more generation unless you can offload the 6800xt at a good price. Also make sure dlss actually solves your issue and doesn’t bother you. Don’t fall victim to fomo and upgradeitis, just because something is better doesn’t mean it’s good enough and worth the money.
I imagine I could get maybe 300 usd max for it. New gpu like 7900 xtx would be 900 usd
Fair enough I mean it works fine rn. Just need to use lower settings.
6800xt
With that, I’d wait for RDNA4.
7800xt isn’t much of an upgrade, nor is 4070ti.
agreed. the 6800xt is a baller of a card, imo.
7800xt is about the same (except a little better on RT and has av1 encoder). Some games, it’s actually a little worse.
4070ti is better in RT, but similar (if not a downgrade) in raster. Not an upgrade either.
Traditionally, one generation is not worth it, unless you’re going from low-mid end to high end. which is costly. Still applies today apparently.
I tend to HODL and only upgrade every 4-5 gens. Vega64 -> RDNA4 is my current plan.
Are you saying 6800xt is the same in raster as 4070ti or did you mean 4070?
Oh, point.
But, of course, at 4070ti prices, I’d look at 7900xt.
I’m going to hold out with my 1070 as long as I can because prices just aren’t where I want them.
I’m still waiting for a worthy successor to the 1060
For $280 the 3060 is twice as fast with twice the memory plus support for DLSS and ray tracing. What are you waiting for?
I jumped from a 1070 to an ex-mining 3080, having a blast!
I just figure the longer I can hold out the better card I can get. I can afford any GPU on the market even a silly 4090 but I’m not spending £2k on a GPU that’s just stupid. Really I just want to spend £350 or so on a really good card like the 1070 was back then.
Really I just want to spend £350 or so on a really good card like the 1070 was back then.
I don’t think that’s realistic. The industry has changed, and GPUs cost more, for a bunch of reasons. You might be waiting for a very long time.
There where a few 4060Ti’s this black friday in the UK with nearly good prices around £360 or so which isn’t far off what I would like to pay for a 70 series card. I remember picking up a 560Ti for £150 back when that released still though a 4060Ti for £360 isn’t that bad.
But a 4060 Ti isn’t a “really good card”, I certainly wouldn’t dispute that, if you remove that requirement, there are options.
It’s better then a 1070. It’s at a price that is better then what a friend paid for his 3060Ti, I think he paid over £600 for it at thee time during covid. Those where dark times.
Nearly everything will be better than a 1070, these days :)
I agree, those were bad times. Still are in a certain sense, since it showed NVidia how much more people (in general) were willing to pay for GPUs… we’re all still paying the price for that.
I think buying any new GPU in 2023 that only has 8GB of VRAM is a mistake. This is an unwise purchase, unless you’re content with 1080p and middling graphics quality… and maybe not even then. Still, it’s your money. You held out for a “really good card” in the past, which was smart. So why change that now?
I have a 1080 and I’m doing the same thing. I’m looking to get 2x the performance before I start looking at upgrading my computer and the top cards look like they’re hitting that point right now so I’ll wait for the mid-level ones to catch up ~next year.
I’m also looking for 2x the performance of what I have now if not a little more.
I went 1070 to a 6800xt last year. 7800xt/4070 is a perfectly viable upgrade route. I’m getting 2-3x the performance lol. The pp$ turns into shit past $500 though. I would recommend discounted 7800xt if you want the best pp$. It actually performs close to a 6950xt in a lot of newer titles, even better with a light OC (AMD makes OC dumb easy).
Probably next year maybe, I have a lot of other projects that take priority over my PC.
Also no idea why Steve said the 6800XT is faster than the 7800XT? Its clearly not.
i’d prefer to look at the meta-reviews rather than any one reviewer or any one set of games, but, yea, you’re right, 7800XT is ~5% faster than 6800XT, it is factually incorrect to say it’s slower.
I don’t know why everyone seems to have collectively decided that it’s slower, same for the 4060 and 4060 Ti which are both faster than the 3060 and 3060 Ti (respectively) at relevant resolutions. Maybe not as much faster as people would like to see, but they literally perform faster in spite of the memory bandwidth reductions etc.
Also no idea why Steve said the 6800XT is faster than the 7800XT? Its clearly not.
He didn’t? I watched the review and all I heard him say is it a specific price it’s cheaper than the 7800 XT and it “often trades places with it”. And that “we saw the 6800 XT outperform the 7800 XT in several tests in our review”. That’s not “faster than the 7800XT”, that’s just saying that in some cases the 6800 XT is the better card.
Keep hodling, I’m sure you can get a 5th hand 4090 off ebay in 5years for a few hundred.
Can you honestly say how much your 1070 build cost when you built it?
I think my 980Ti build back in the day ran around 1,500 beans… You can build a 7900XT rig for around the same with a massive increase performance to dollars paid previously.
I a 1070 to replace my 680 Classified when the VRAM on it started to fail. But the rest of my rig which I still run is my 5820k which I think was about £300 or so new, the motherbaord was £140 which is an MSI SLI X99 Plus and my memory is some cheap Crucial 16GB DDR4 kit which was £170. A 850W EVGA powersupply and a Corsair Air 540. I think the power supply was £100 or so? and the case was about £150 I think. If you added it all up it should be around £1200 with the 1070. With the 680 whcih I got for a previous system that was £550 which was a lot of money back then.
I remember buying a gtx 750 in 2015 for 100$ cad and it was a pretty solid budget card. checking the same store I bought it from now and they are selling a gt 730 for 110$. absolute cheapest gaming card on the site, rx 6500xt is going for 200$ on sale, wtf happened man budget pc gaming is fucked