Researchers jailbreak a Tesla to get free in-car feature upgrades::A group of researchers found a way to hack a Tesla’s hardware with the goal of getting free in-car upgrades, such as heated rear seats.
I’m amazed that it’s legal for a car company to sell you something, and then after you own it, remotely disable xyz aspects of the functionality unless you pay them more. How can that be legal? I own the car, it’s MINE now, how can I not use every single thing that’s in it?
Same reason it’s legal for HP to brick your printer if you use third party ink. You violated their shitty TOS that none of us read because it’s 80 pages of legalese, but you agreed to it.
hmmm yes I suppose that’s true. Okay so let me rephrase: I’m amazed it’s legal for a car manufacturer to even HAVE a TOS like that when you purchase a car. It shouldn’t be legal to write language like “you are purchasing this but agreeing that you can’t use it” … wtf?
I agree that it’s wrong, but I don’t think, at least in the U.S., that there’s any law against it. Like I said, HP does the exact same thing with their printers. I certainly would like for it to be illegal.
Can any fill in how this is in the EU right now, as they often have better legislation regarding this issue?
In Germany, BMW and VW both offer subscriptions for functionality already built into the car. BMW is notorious for their heated seat subscription here and the Mk8 Golf I leased for a while had a bunch of minor stuff pay-walled like automatic high beams, changing color of the interior ambient lighting, etc.
You can still outright buy those features but it’s totally insane to pay for something that’s already physically inside the car. And it’s not like these are budget brands that need to upsell a bunch of stuff to be profitable. A base Golf starts at €31k…
So I’ve been in discussions like this for equipment on trains. It functionally goes:
You paid for X. The hardware we plan to use for faster build supports X+Y. You can either:
- pay for Y
- have us artificially prevent Y
- wait until the hardware that just does X comes in
I actually agree with the options prevented above. I just think that, as the owner, you should still have the right to reverse item 2 if you can figure out how. Especially if it’s out of warranty.
Lets be fair
TOSs you need two lawyers and an ai chatbot to explain to you, shouldnt be legal vs regular citizens.
They cannot expect anyone to read all TOS they get thrown in their face throughout a lifetime. Let alone understand them. Its often not written super clearly and not all users can even read the language very well to begin with.
I really wonder if there’s a way to use LLMs just to point out every concerning thing in a EULA/TOS
To what end? Probably every eula/tos you click through has concerning shit that is against your best interest. Either you use the product or you don’t.
That’s why EULAs or other contracts are not necessarily legally binding if they contain specific parts that could be considered “unfair”; at least in the European Union.
Yeah but I want to know just how fucked I am when I sign it
TLDR If you’re the consumer, you’re always the fucked party of a TOS.
You can give this a try
Probably not ChatGPT because who knows what was in its EULA and we couldn’t use it to summarize it before agreeing to it.
Bet you could but not sure what that would get you. So you don’t click agree to it. Now what?
Lobbying.
The captolism, American politics bought and paid for.
Unless you pay them more every month. Not everything needs to be a subscription and they’ll keep doing it unless people stop buying.
the state does not look out for the interests of the people, so it makes perfect sense really.
I’ve seen a bunch of lab equipment do this as well. For some, there are firmware hacks available to enable features only available on models twice the price.
Removed by mod
consumer activism, rich people that think they’re helping the world and feel good about themselves by buying a brand new electric car. also most people are just technologically illiterate so yea.
Champagne socialists.
Champagne liberal*
I’m not defending this practice (it’s gross), but
people and critics almost universally lovemany people and critics who actually own/drive Teslas love them.So, you’re kind of mischaracterizing them as “worse than other cars.”
edit: it’s unsurprising that this comment is downvoted in a thread hellbent on shitting on Tesla. I don’t know what I expected.
This is an interesting comment to make. For years I’ve seen people shitting all over musk and Tesla, specifically because they have a ton of build quality issues
No, it’s not “almost universal”. Even before musk becomes public idiot number one, there was a lot of hate for these cars
Maybe my opinion is dated/anecdotal.
My belief re: critics comes from early days of Tesla, when the concept of a fast ev was very foreign to most auto journalists. So, most of the reviews were something along the lines of “I wanted to hate this car, but goddamn if it isn’t faster than insert critic’s favorite sports car and way more useful too. I’m converted.”
Re: people in general, I’m basing it off of people I know who own them. That’s admittedly a very small sample size (~a dozen), but their opinions are the polar opposite of what you’ll find on random Internet forums. There’s definitely selection bias going on in both directions.
For what it’s worth, I’m very aware of the QA issues and no I don’t own a Tesla myself.
Tesla does a lot of things right - their cars are amongst the fastest around and their charging network is superior to any others to date
But their build quality is poor and their autonomous driving features are overstated compared to what they can deliver
Plus their service support is limited due to their direct sell model - there aren’t many places to get Tesla’s repaired
Tesla did make EVs mainstream though. Consider that their cars outsell popular ICE cars even though the Tesla’s cost 50%+ more
So, it’s a mixed bag with a lot of their customers, and some outsiders, absolutely fanatical about them, some people hating them by proxy because of Musk, and some people 50/50 on them like any car brand
Most people that have purchased Teslas have already been invested and just about everything ever including gut feel tells you at that point that they’re not going to say it was a mistake to buy a thing they spent $50-100k on.
People don’t like admitting they were suckered, and certainly not to people they are trying to impress.
We have a Tesla and most owners love them because they’re good cars. Cost of ownership is next to nothing and our Model Y had next to no issues so far (scratch on seat when we picked it up which they replaced with a service appointed).
It costs less than $2 per 100 km to run while the prior car cost closer to $20 per $100 km in premium fuel. Also no oil changes or other significant maintenance (spark plugs, transmission oil, etc.) We save $3000 of gas per year and we’re in a luxurious/premium car. What I don’t understand is why anyone would buy a GLC/Q5/X3 over a Model Y. Who wants to spend $15k on gas in 5 years?
The economics are compelling, but the cost of ownership for someone like me would also have to factor in the extra interest paid on a loan at least $20K more than a comparably-sized ICE car
How do you come to that conclusion, and why would it be different for any other car?
I have both a bmw (330, 6 cylinder) and a tesla m3. The bmw is only 2 years older. Nowadays I prefer to drive the m3 by a wide margin for various reasons.
Musk had nothing to do with that, on the contrary it is more in spite of him than because of him that I bought one. I think that goes for most Tesla owners, as most of them are politically moderate and centrists and do not like extremists like him (or any).
Right wingers are ideologically against it and rather damage themselves by their ideology, and lefists tend to not have the money :) or (in Europe at least) are against any means of individual non-public transport.
…people and critics almost universally love Teslas…
Not sure where you get that from. Elon and Tesla cult members might have you think so but a Google search on Teslas reputation show differently. Consuser affairs showing about 60% positive.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/tesla_motors.html?#sort=top_reviews&filter=1
How high are you right meow?
Universally loved? LMAO where the fuck are you hearing that? Teslas are known overpriced shitboxes.
good. software locks are anti human and anti consumer. everyone inherently feels ripped off by them, but the more capitalist minded think ‘oh that’s the company’s right to do’
if it’s my property in my house I can fuck with it to do whatever I want
Unfortunately because most of this is locked behind DRM you may be subject to crimes best described by someone else as “felony contempt of business model”.
How dare people find ways around our artifical scarcity.
So you think you should be able to pay for a base model and get all the features of the top of the line model? Try that at a Toyota dealership and let me know how that goes.
Flipping a bit in software doesn’t cost Tesla anything, the hardware is already installed.
It would be totally different if Tesla didn’t install the hardware by default, and you had to pay to have it put in.
It doesn’t cost VW anything either, they still want 1500€ to enable the fog lights to turn on when taking a turn (not sure how what feature is called).
I love that you think Tesla isn’t pricing the premium features into the base model.
At Toyota, you pay for the premium shit to get installed, you most certainly do not pay a fee (recurring or otherwise) for them to turn it on.
I’m actually really glad that Toyota hasn’t locked their active safety features (Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Assist, Frontal Collision Braking) behind vehicle trim paywalls. That stuff is standard on all their vehicles now.
Unlike others cough Dodge cough where is still a premium upcharge for driver assistance technology that can potentially save your life on the road. I get charging more for heated seats and whatnot, but it’s unethical in this instance because the car is certainly able to (on a hardware level) turn on its active safety features without doing a complete retrofit.
Absolutely. Turning those features off is a safety risk and should probably be illegal. Imagine the world of cringe where you tried to pull on your seatbelt but it was locked because you didn’t pay for your seatbelt subscription.
Yes! Back to jailbreaking!
of course it was the PSP. I’ll say it again and again; secure computing is like adding a back door that you know about. Fuck intel me, fuck amd psp, fuck apple sep, fuck microsoft tpm, and fuck anyone who wants to have control over a device I own.
Google: time to add DRM to chrome
Google has betrayed Google.
As all corporations eventually do.
Google is eating its children.
That’s a story of TITANic proportions
Technological serfdom. You don’t own anything anymore. You can perpetually rent from your lord or you can suffer the consequences.
The “you wouldnt pirate a car” crowd will be shook when they finally realize " yes we would"
I used to think " I wouldn’t because that’s a stupid metaphor" but now that it’s not a stupid metaphor oh yes the fuck I would.
Or just don’t buy a luxury car
Researchers jailbreak Tesla to allow usage of the entire car they purchased. FTFY
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A group of researchers said they have found a way to hack the hardware underpinning Tesla’s infotainment system, allowing them to get what normally would be paid upgrades — such as heated rear seats — for free.
This may also give owners the ability to enable the self-driving and navigation system in regions where it’s normally not available, the researchers told TechCrunch, though they admitted that they haven’t tested these capabilities yet, as that would require more reverse engineering.
“We are not the evil outsider, but we’re actually the insider, we own the car,” Werling told TechCrunch in an interview ahead of the conference.
Werling explained that what they did was “fiddle around” with the supply voltage of the AMD processor that runs the infotainment system.
With the same technique, the researchers said they were also able to extract the encryption key used to authenticate the car to Tesla’s network.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good bot
This looks to have already been discovered years ago as this company sells an OBD2 plug that can toggle all of this stuff, as well as highjacking some controls to add new functionality, as well as adding 50HP to those cars with a specific rear motor version https://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade
Is this method software only? Because the upgrades on that site are pretty expensive and proprietary.
as well as adding 50HP
Holy shit, IRL health buffs to mounts
Takes pay-to-win to the next level
If you read the article it is different. This relies on physically bringing connections to gain root access to the file system.
It’s also unlikely Tesla can’t just watch for modified files and update them everytime the car goes into drive or something. They probably won’t do it, but to claim it’s impossible is just disingenuous
If I hear I can solder a modchip to a Tesla to get free features, bypass paid subscription stuff, I totally would.
I guess? But I also would never, ever, buy a Tesla.
Teslas have x64 CPU’s? What the hell?
It does have the letter x in it…
/s
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Please don’t call him the r word, that’s an insult to the mentally challenged
His intelligence and reasoning skills are hindered or reduced in performance; i.e. retarded.
Just because a slur appears with a definition in a dictionary, does not make it acceptable. And maybe it was acceptable at one time, but things change.
“Retard/-ed/-ant” has many formal applications, and should not be considered a slur when used properly; unlike other slurs that only exist these days for hate.
For example, Airbus airplanes inform pilots during every landing of what they should be doing. Some may argue it reminds the pilots what they are, should they fail to do so.
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Heated rear seats I can get behind
Why would you want to be behind the heated seats? Seems like it’d be warmer on the seat, not to mention that there’s no 3rd row in a Tesla so you’d be in the trunk…
Oh, you!
Well it was a pun.
Get behind
This is great. When you buy the car, you own it. I don’t care what kind of weird licenses and contracts they put together. If I buy the car and there is hardware in the car that allows for heated seats, there is no reason why I shouldn’t be able to enable it myself, tear it out, or do whatever I want with it. It is mine.
I can understand there being safety concerns for modifying a car. But the owner of the car already accepts liability for the operation of that car. If I do not modify the car and I get into an accident due to Teslas auto pilot feature or another thing baked into their system, does Tesla accept liability? No, they do not. If it is my responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle, then it is also my responsibility to modify a vehicle in a safe manner. 
Elon’s going to have a hissy fit
He has one every X minutes anyway, an extra one is not going to make any difference.
Ha, X
DMX right?!
X gon give it to ya
**continue his current hissy fit, but with a renewed purpose
“Researchers remove limits that shouldn’t be there on features that are already part of the car”
Never buying any car with this type of tech.
If it’s “our future” then I’ll stick to used cars for life
I have on old car. I should replace it, but it doesn’t have a lot of mileage. I’m honestly dreading the purchase of new car because of this practice, not just the subscription features, but the control the maker has by being networked to it. I love my old dumb car.
Just buy a used car instead, as it’s actually better nowadays with the insane dealer markups
