Both variants are pretty wtf to me. Not necessarily showing the pictures but explicitly pointing out their genitals.
Showing pictures too.
I would argue the top picture is also a big no no.
I thought that is the point
Dark Arc is saying that it is generally considered a bad thing, contrary to the comic which is implying that it is generally considered good or neutral when it should be considered bad.
you guys missed the point. neither should be bad. it’s only bad because of how we sexualize eveything. it’s the sexualization that’s bad, and honestly, that wouldn’t even be that bad if it weren’t for the patriarchal exploitation of sex.
Shouldn’t both be bad? Stop sharing naked photos of people who can’t give you consent to do so.
there is nothing inherently wrong with our naked bodies. society has conditioned us to have shame. once upon a time, being naked was normal.
Yeah I’d still rather people not show off photos of me without them asking. Its okay to have privacy.
This has now gone to: sharing baby pictures is a privacy violation because the baby can’t give consent.
Lot of very special people in this thread on Lemmy today.
Yeah, i mean in today’s world, i value privacy too, but don’t you wish you lived in a world where we were more in tune with the natural world and our natural selves?
Stop sharing any photos of people who don’t give consent, whether they can or not.
In an alternate timeline where we never had the stigma around nudity, I’d be just as embarrassed of my nose in a photo than I would of my penis.
Or maybe 10 years after I cut ties with you because you became a massive douche sandwich, I don’t want my picture on the same Facebook wall as your white pride rally.
Not you, personally, but any body really.
Still shouldn’t be sharing naked pictures of people without consent and of people who cannot consent
Hmm, that’s a good point, I was just clarifying what Dark Arc said as far as I can tell. You’re right neither should be sexualized, but in the world we live in neither should be shared IMO.
I think krippix’ point (as well as the comic’s point) is that the first is socially acceptable while the second is not. And that then suggests that the first scenario should also not be socially acceptable.
And that then suggests that the first scenario should also not be socially acceptable.
Last part depends on interpretation. But most likely yes.
I don’t think it really takes a side … just kind of points out that it’s super weird that it’s more socially acceptable in one direction than the other.
I do hope the author intended for what I said to be the point though.
Yeah that’s kinda the point.
Definitely, there’s nothing “cute” about nude photos of children.
I get a chuckle about Ultra sound images as well. It’s fine if a woman wants to post those photos of her insides on the Internet. But I’m the bad guy if I say “Jessica pop that pussy open let’s see it in person.”
Thanks for ruining ultrasound for me
Anytime pal. lol wait till you learn mens nipples and womans are 100 identical.
I hope this isn’t a long wait
Mine are hairier. Like the jet.
You should have seen some of the woman I been with. I needed a good damn machete to get to the temple of suck.
My condolences.
Uhh. Nah.
But they arent tho. I am a trans woman who has been on estrogen for 4 months. In that time i have absolutely noticed my nipples changing, both growing and getting hard more regularly than before.
Yawn your missing the point.
they are NOT 100% identical you dumb nutz. First, unless you are aware, XX does not equal XY
So they are absolutely not 100%. You cannot transplant a XY nipple onto an XX and expect it to work.
Can’t tell if this is satire lmao but just start poppin’ some estrogen and get back to me in a couple years.
So I have to take a PILL *FOR YEARS to make my body produce something that a womens body does naturally but you still think that is 100 the same?
Oh you’re actually that stupid, let me laugh harder
Are you actually this dumb?
Look up signs of breast cancer in men.
Nope that is not the argument that is being made here. The fact that men get breast cancer at such a low rate compared to women nullifies your comment.
Nothing to do with the nipple or how it functions.
You would fail basic biology with that excuse.
Is a transperson who lactates You sure about that?
Taking hormones that don’t generate with xy
Exactly. XY is not at all a hindrance to lactation. Because XY and XX nipples are the same. It’s just hormones (usually while pregnant) that make them function.
(And thus the Nipple Wars started)
Suck a dick with your xy xx bullshit.
You make it sound like you have ultrasound videos in your streaming queue.
You can’t see the baby without the ultrasound. It’s not like you could grab a speculum and get a good look in person.
You’ve obviously never been in one of those flashlight enthusiasts groups. They’ll gladly tell you how you can see anything if you light it enough.
Ultrasound is just really slow light
Ackchyually… that’s completely wrong. Frighteningly so, I might add, where has basic education gone.
Ultrasound are mechanical waves, light is EM radiation. Really slow light is infrared. Really fast ultrasound is… even more ultra ultrasound. Slower ultrasound would be this.
Humor is dead.
Yes, you killed it.
Wait, let me try:
The earth is flat!
See how funny I am?
Really, you did it. You really did it. You killed humour so dead it’s not even working for me, any more.
Christ, what an asshole.
Not with that attitude
Is it a baby or is it just cells? Am I viewing cunt cells or nah?
You’re not viewing cunt cells in ultrasounds people share. You’d be viewing a fetus, uterus, placenta. But that’s all internal. Not external.
Please include yourself in your previous mentioned list of cunt cells.
If you think someone posting photos of anatomical scans and sexually harassing someone are comparable, then idk what to say.
God your fucking stupid.
You’re*
The most ironic spell-check I’ve ever given.
I never knew it was acceptable to do this with boys
It is. My mom did it. I’ve seen many other moms do it.
His issue was phrasing. The woman used a euphemism which significantly shifted her perceived intentions. “Look at his little wee-wee” is far removed from “look at his little penis.” Synonyms are not created equal, so simply substituting without considering connotation will only cause confusion. He should have said “get an eyeful of her little vagina.”
Look at her little vajayjay, nope still weird.
Gawk at her crack, mate!
Nope.
Gander her bandersnatch
Hmm
Behold the axe wound
Huh
Peek at her meatflaps
Nah
Now I want Arby’s.
I don’t get it.
Behold! Her cave of wonders!
🤷
And his nephrite rod!
???
Crack, cocaine.
Even worse.
I think if he referred to it as her little pussy or cunny it would make it significantly worse.
That’s more adult slang for vagina. Little kid euphemism would be something like hooha or twinkle.
Man saying that to another man is still questionable. Still sounds like he’s lending his child out for drugs.
Are there people seriously calling vagoos as hoohas
You call called them vagoos. I’m not sure you have much room to judge.
No word feels great which is pretty sad considering how many child-friendly euphemisms there are for a penis. With my daughter we try to emulate the same vibe as ‘willy’ combined with some anatomical accuracy by using the word ‘vulvy’. Sounds gross to many, makes sense to others. Your mileage may vary haha.
Welcome to the 70’s, although that was still in an adult context.
hoohas and floofs
my older sister and her daughters… I always had a hard time not laughing at it.
vomiting intensifies
My mom was one of those top ladies. 😬
It’s OK kolanaki, I find your wee wee very cute too
Showing one or looking one? Nevermind, I don’t want to know.
Instance checks out
You guys want to consider gender in vacuum but it is never a good idea.
Look at the sexualisation and brainwashing of the girls and patriarchy and men having this big power gap and sometimes using it in the most monstrous of the ways even today let alone 100 years ago. This is why the second image is big wtf while the first is small wtf.
That’s because in the first no one would immediately think that they sexualise the boy while in the second we arrive at this conclusion immediately and without hesitation thanks to all the hard work of men thorought history.
I know having this original sin of your fathers on your shoulders is not a cool feeling but this is the reality we are in.
The sooner this collective PTSD heals and that can only happen after some time of treating women as humans, the better for everyone. Problem is that point in history is far, far away considering the core issue is still prevalent.
It will take another 100 years of intense education and raising new generations to have the society that isn’t obviously fucked up and deeply hurt.
No one in the picture or the audience is sexualizing little girls (or boys). Instead, the outrage is caused by harmful expectations of purity that are imposed on girls and women, but not boys. As well as the current moral panic about pedophilia, which again is unhelpful in actuality protecting children.
Want to protect help children from predators? Help them remove the stigma around their bodies and sex, and empower them to speak and be heard when something they don’t like happens. Failing to do so reinforces the feelings of shame that all too often enable predators to get away with what they do.
And maybe also don’t share potentially embarrassing photos without consent but that’s small potatoes compared to the above issues.
Help them remove the stigma around their bodies and sex, and empower them to speak and be heard when something they don’t like happens.
This. So much this. If auntie wants to give them a kiss and they don’t want to get slobbered then tough fucking luck auntie, I’ll back the little shits up when they bite you. Predators are, by and large, able to do what they do because people don’t teach kids that they do, in fact, have bodily autonomy.
And while I’m at it bodily autonomy of kids also implies that parents don’t parade photos around like some fucking trophy or something. Have some basic fucking regard for your own kids and what they want. How would you feel when they’re showing nude pictures of you to their classmates yeah I thought so.
How would you feel when they’re showing nude pictures of you to their classmates yeah I thought so.
Depends, does your mom have an onlyfans?
Secrets die in the light
“Knowledge is the light in the darkness of ignorance”.
I like this additional take with pure facts and discussion, It’s mostly uncharacteristically civil and starts to be interesting or at least has potential to be.
However I am mostly focused on why one picture is big wtf and why one is smaller wtf.
Collective ptsd is not real and anyone who uses that term should be mocked mercilessly for the rest of their life.
In fact, collective trauma can impact relationships, alter policies and governmental processes, alter the way the society functions, and even change its social norms (Chang, 2017; Hirschberger, 2018; Saul, 2014)
Aydin, C. (2017). How to Forget the Unforgettable? On Collective Trauma, Cultural Identity, and Mnemotechnologies, Identity, 17:3, 125-137, DOI: 10.1080/15283488.2017.1340160
collective trauma refers to the impact of a traumatic experience that affects and involves entire groups of people, communities, or societies. Collective trauma is extraordinary in that not only can it bring distress and negative consequences to individuals but in that it can also change the entire fabric of a community (Erikson, 1976).
I appreciate your efforts but it is a real, scientifically proven phenomenon.
“Collective trauma” ≠ “collective PTSD”
Sure, but PTSD is a specific disorder that individuals are diagnosed with. If a group of people are unable to work towards a single goal, saying they have “collective ADHD” is imprecise and potentially offensive to people with the diagnosis.
That said, I knew what you meant 🤷
It seems to be the accepted term in the scholarly and clinical community.
“Collective trauma” or “collective PTSD”? The latter is what we were discussing earlier in this thread. It has zero occurrences on Google Ngrams: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Collective+PTSD%2C+collective+trauma&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3
I was talking about collective trauma which OP was citing, though their initial term is collective PTSD.
Why would you use n-gram and not journal search engine like Google Scholar. There seems to be an engagement in the concept of collective PTSD since about 2007.
Is this an area of research or practice for you? It is not mine.
Trauma and ptsd can be used interchangeably. PTSD is more precise term and clinically significant. Trauma is more colloquial. I used PTSD on purpose to accent the debilitating effect it has on the society as a whole.
trauma and ptsd cannot be used interchangeably at all. PTSD is a specific mental condition documented in the DSM-5 and recognized by doctors that have multiple variations and nuances that must be taken into account. Trauma is an overarching term to describe experiences that have had a significant and profound impact on someone’s mental state and health. I’m not usually a crazy stickler for word usage but this is just horribly imprecise language. You can have trauma without having PTSD. They are not the same thing and should not be treated as such.
The hot tl;dr of this that is going to get you a lot of angry boys sending you incoherent diatribes is that we haven’t decided as a species that we will stop sexualizing youth.
Yes there are biological imperatives for the sexually aggressive sex to seek out mates that are young, healthy and capable of producing offspring before they become too old to reproduce. That’s all a thing that’s real, but it’s as far distant in our past as most other ancient instincts that we’ve put to rest. We just keep this one alive because we want it to continue broadly. The whole notion of older men predating and sexualizing children is absolutely something that if we all decided together was no longer acceptable, it would end tomorrow. (Or realistically in one generation.)
The reason I say this is because there are a lot of men who will secretly or overtly hold the position that since we have biological urges, then it must be natural and acceptable. Meanwhile, ya’ll fuckers completely ignore the thousand other biological drives and standards that we’ve abolished because they’re unproductive, hurt people or just have gone out of style.
For example: body odor. Do you really think we were using soap and perfume when we were packed together in huts and caves for the last thousand millennia? You are genetically identical to the people who used to bury their faces in each other’s armpits to identify each other in the dark, but the thought makes you gag now because you were socialized to feel repulsion at this. (Fetishes aside.) We can socialize ourselves to believe and internalize almost anything, we are far, far beyond the forces of natural selection and are now choosing our evolutionary path. Wouldn’t it be nice if we chose good paths that respected others and protected children.
It will take another 100 years of intense education and raising new generations to have the society that isn’t obviously fucked up and deeply hurt.
I don’t share in your positivity.
sexualisation and brainwashing of the girls and patriarchy and men having this big power gap
Women can do what men can’t = sexualisation and brainwashing of the girls and patriarchy. Ok. “Men having this big power gap” indeed.
and sometimes using it in the most monstrous of the ways
Thanks for the lecture, professor.
My god damn pleasure sub
Maybe we should encourage suicides in boys starting in schools, would that work for you? Edit: if you are going to down vote me the offer an idea the left will actually do. Otherwise I guess we are bringing up more republican rapists. ‘50% of the world population would feel safer if you died’ is the messaging the left offers so lean I to it or change the messaging
tl;dr “Misandry is perfectly fine because men are evil and nothing a woman has ever done is wrong.”
The problem isn’t that the bottom scenario isn’t accepted, it’s that the top scenario is. No one should be showing off nudes of children in public, or anywhere really, regardless of gender. It’s weird, it’s sick, and it has no place in this world.
There’s nothing wrong about nude children or any other human old or young. Just go to a beach in Europe…
Yes Americans are weird about this thanks to years of well… catholic brain rot
If you’re taking photos on a nude beach in Europe you’re getting decked. Kid, adult, doesn’t matter.
There’s a massive fucking difference between sitting naked in a sauna with other naked people and sitting on public transit, fully dressed, gossiping about non-consensual nudes of children. How is that even a question. How are you capable of equating those things.
Nude adult humans = Nothing wrong Nude children = “Hi, I’m Chris Hansen with dateline NBC”
Children do not belong on a nude beach
Well you have no idea then. Here no one cares. It’s normal and nothing sexual about it
And not even on the nude beach either on a normal beach too there’s hordes of nude children running about. I am waiting for your head to explode now
Such a weird thing to say … when I was little ('70s) it was not uncommon for kids to swim nude, we didn’t care… Any adults who are ogling kids aren’t going to stop just because of one layer of clothing.
It’s weird, it’s sick, and it has no place in this world.
Only if you think a naked body = sex, which is a weird assumption to make if you think about it.
Except the comic doesn’t show them discussing or showing a naked body, it’s a weirdo pointing out the genitals to another person in a very public place. If it was toes, it’d be fine. If it was just a naked body it’d be whatever, mostly. But they’re specifically pointing out genitals, that implies sexual focus. It’s only “cute” and “funny” for the old women here because eventually it’ll be an organ used for sex…
Because the only time it’s appropiate for two people to be naked together is when dey fucking?
You misinterpreted OP, otherwise I also do think the top scenario is weird.
incels will downvote this
Having had four kids, if you are showing people pictures of any baby in the bath naked, they’re gonna be upset no matter the gender. I don’t think his is true at all.
I wish I could burn half my mother’s photo albums.
You can. Just not yet
Let me guess. You’re a guy.
I feel.like we generally give women a pass on A LOT of weird behaviors about children.
That does include elevated attention to the genital area (seriously, why? Leave our genitals alone ffs), borderline fetishizing breastfeeding, and also a lot of other stuff.
Like, for example, I had several women independently telling me how baby feces smell nice and milky. Like, what the hell and why do y’all feel it’s appropriate for a casual conversation???
Or that they love to smell baby feet. Huh? Funny thing I first got those stories after seeing a TV ad (was a while ago) with a woman burying her face in baby feet.
I can only assume this is either a result of hormonal shifts throughout pregnancy, or that there’s plenty more female pedophiles than we knew.
I think you’re conflating fun facts about our anatomy and human bodily processes with something sexual.
It’s an illustrative comment though. Our society teaches us not to view women as predatory, and to always view men as such - so that creates the difference between a woman talking about baby anatomy and a man talking about baby anatomy.
You are again talking about the comic strip, valid.
@Allegro took it in a whole different direction, which I think is false
women are pure. they can talk about a baby’s genitalia and it’s cute. if a man wants to be a kindergarten teacher, though, whoa, pedophile alert!
all of em eh? The moment you identify male it’s gone I guess, and vice-versa
People are too weird about genitals. Our culture finds it so uncomfortable to talk to their sons about cleaning their penis that we started cutting the foreskin off to spare them the embarrassment.
I wish I was still dumb enough to be conservative. I was happier than. I hate myself now everyday I wish I had the courage to kill myself
Wtf?
“I wish I didn’t know about societal and existential problems of humanity. I was happier when I didn’t. I hate myself now everyday, I wish I had the courage to stop my suffering.”
Don’t engage with obvious trolls, just block and move on
I was repeating the image, but thank you for your instructions daddy
I was. I was still angry all the time, but at least it was not at myself
Conservatives live in an endless cycle of outrage and fear, the fuck you talking about happy
But it’s not at themselves
Maybe comfortable is the better word.
That is, anger, outrage, paranoia, and ignorance are their comfort zone. It’s what they know. And in my little corner of the world, the more vociferously conservative they are, the less self-aware they are about it.
It’s really pervasive in ways I never truly realized until way too far into adulthood when I was working to get that shit out of my own head.
DEAR GOD! The patriarchy! Women have it so much harder than men!
Yes.
And why do we think that might be different? Anyone?
Because they are sitting in a pink colored train, and not in the blue colored one.
Also no, but interesting point
The assumed innocence of women and the assumed guilt of men.
Yes. And why was that?
Misandry and the belief that anything with a penis is evil, even if the individual in question doesn’t even want to have a penis
No, but that is a compelling narrative.
It’s because men sexually assault women a lot. Like, an awful amount. Children, relatives, the whole thing: 1 out of 3 women have been sexually assaulted. That’s why it’s different.
It’s a leftist thing. I am liberal but I do not have any dillusions on how I am viewed by my ‘fellow’ liberals.
¿Que?
deleted by creator
I don’t know how you mean, but okay.
Because nobody cares when double standards negatively impact boys or men.
No, but very men’s rights there.
So labia, then? Or vulva, maybe. Unless that camera is an internal one, they’re likely not seeing any vaginas.
I too took middle school health class
Of course, you’re technically very right - what they see is not vagina.
But in the culture, the word often simply refers to female genitals as a whole.
That doesn’t mean anyone using that word is not aware of the words “labia” and “vulva”, they can even differentiate between labia majora and labia minora etc.
But for the sake of brevity and simplicity, people just say “vagina”, even if it’s not necessarily a technically correct term.
Situation also matters. This appears to be on a bus and between acquaintances. Do this same thing at home toward the adult child’s significant other and it becomes a funny thing parents do to embarrass their kids.
funny thing parents do to embarrass their kids
And what is funny about that?
That’s parents’ favorite move! “Ha! You used to be smaller! And naked!” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Le small pp
Funny for the parents
Nowadays, girls can have a wee wee. 😬
No, they are babies, they don’t even know how to speak, how are they going to be able to know what “gender” even means?
Calling a baby with wee wee a girl is the same as calling your 18 year old trans daughter a boy, you are just trying to brainwash them.
Yeah, exactly. Babies are too young for gender. It’s child abuse to call any baby a boy or a girl. Gender starts developing in the brain at 2-3 years of age.
Are the genders with you right now?
Is it also child abuse to give your kid a name? My evil parents brainwashed me into believing I was a James.
A gendered name, yes.
Oh, hee hee hee.
“Nowadays, boys can have a vagina.”
What the fuck!?
the child cant talk yet and has no sense of wtf a “gender” is, its fine lol
They waited 6 months to drop this knowledge bomb.
… and?
Yes, but if she’s a baby nobody knows she’s a girl yet, including her.
