In the same week large swaths of the US were under extreme heat warnings, Joe Biden’s Justice Department filed its most recent motion to dismiss a landmark climate case by arguing that nothing in the Constitution guarantees the right to a secure climate.
They’re right though. There is nothing in the US constitution that guarantees the right to a healthy environment.
Cool that it isn’t stopping them from putting a lot of climate action in motion.
What a dumb article.
Not only is there nothing in the constitution to prevent them from adding to it, the forefathers urged us to do so, and created systems for exactly that reason. The forefathers weren’t dummies, they were smart guys. That’s why they created something that is supposed to be a living document.
We should do that! It’s a great idea to add to and modify the document that shapes our rights.
I can think of three new amendments I’d want right away. But I can’t sue the government on the basis of laws that don’t exist.
They are also dead and thus very easy to speak in name of.
Just stop building politics around dead or nearly dead people. There are living ones to take care of.
I think the compromises they struck have put a lot of that wishful thinking out of reach.
While we’re at it let’s give everyone a right to world peace.
That filing came as President Joe Biden has refused repeated calls to declare a climate emergency, and as his administration backed a court case designed to accelerate the construction of a massive fossil gas pipeline, despite scientists’ climate warnings. Biden’s administration has also declared that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s scientific report about climate change “does not present sufficient cause” to halt a massive expansion of fossil fuel drilling.
Always fun to see liberals lie by omission. Look at all that “action”. It surely is just a coincidence that the Biden admin keeps aggressively fighting against climate change lawsuits in court.
“Always fun to see liberals lie by omission.”
Always fun to see Lemmy comment sections get filled with more of this toxic crap.
The rules in the Constitution are only relevant so far as they are within the ability of the government to provide. Outlawing slavery, the right to free speech, the right to vote, these can all be provided and protected by the government. The global climate can only be protected by ensuing that the rest of the world does not ruin the climate, in other words, the US would have to invade any country that endangers the climate for is citizens to ensure that right. This is why the Constitution does not provide he right to travel anywhere outside of US borders either.
the US would have to invade any country that endangers the climate for is citizens to ensure that right.
The US has invaded several countries to ensure their citizens have the right to cheap oil, which is also not covered in the constitution.
And you’ve proven my point.
No. The complete opposite of your point.
It is not in the constitution, so it can’t be done - your point.
I am saying that the US has done things outside the constitution and in breach of international law to directly and materially aid their citizens.
But this time it is different somehow…
It is not in the constitution, so it can’t be done - your point.
Actually they’re saying the opposite. It seems everyone else in this thread seems to misunderstand it the way you did, though. The actual issue is that there is no constitutional right because you cannot having this in the consititution because there’s no guarantee the US would be able to follow up on the right granted to its citizens.
E.g., as you said before, there is no constitutional right to cheap oil, either. The US gov can try to provide that, but they cannot guarantee they can provide that, hence they cannot grant it as a consititutional right.
I would rephrase it further. This is about the balance of powers in the government. The argument isn’t that we don’t have this right, it’s that it isn’t a Constitutional right.
Our existing Constitutional rights are more or less straightforward - “No one can prevent you from peacefully speaking your mind,” aside from exceptions like fraud and credible threats. The judicial branch, the court system, is responsible for stopping wrongdoers and overturning laws that violate those rights.
By contrast, the proposed right, “No one can prevent you from having a stable climate where you live,” is completely unenforceable by the courts.
The scope is too different: it’s unclear what actions and laws would be in violation of that right. Would you be infringing on your neighbor’s right to a stable climate because you drove your car to work when you could have ridden a bike? Is your city infringing on your right to a stable climate if it uses incandescent light bulbs in government offices, or fails to mandate solar panels on every roof?
The point being there is no Constitutional right to a stable climate because there’s not really a way to directly violate that right in a way that the courts can enforce. Instead, it needs to be a policy decision passed by legislation with specific rules and actions in mind. That’s a power reserved for Congress and not the courts.
Right. I certainly hope the case succeeds, but cants see how it can be based n Constitutional grounds. Montana is an anomaly because their Constitution did explicitly protect the environment
It seems like you’d have better luck arguing the EPA isn’t doing a sufficient job, or something
By that logic, they cannot guarantee the freedom of speech either though. They can try very hard, and do their best to make amends for when it’s breached, but many people have been silenced illegally by the US government. They can try, but they cannot promise this fact.
I don’t see why one couldn’t apply the same to climate.
The US government will not jail you for exercising free speech. That’s what free speech is. The government can not censor free speech, and they do not. To protect your right to free speech, all the government needs to do is nothing.
They are supposed to, but it happens. There is a reason we have appeals courts stranger.
This isn’t a US issue. No one’s Constitution can guarantee this.
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I did not say that the US gogernment does not provide protections beyond what the Constitution says, not does any of the included things prove that it can not provide protections to freedom of expression, etc, inside of its own borders.
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The US subsidizes the world’s demand for military and protection as well as the world’s healthcare. There’s no excuse, we could have this world fully renewable if we had the will to do so.
this is irrelevant. this isn’t about the US, this is about how the constitution works.
the US would have to invade any country that endangers the climate for is citizens to ensure that right.
Well, that depends on what we think about climate change. If we think the climat change will destroy the humanity then this seems to be justifiable.
Justifiable or not, it’s still not something that is in the control of the government exclusively.
Fair point - government can try to provide it, but can’t guarantee the result.
The Constitution also explicitly states that we have rights not enumerated in the Constitution.
That’s true I always forget about that.
I find penumbral reasoning compelling in its own right.
But the Ninth Amendment is express:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
The difference here is that unenumerated rights can be added at a future date, and this right has not been added.
Unenumerated rights can become enumerated rights if they are added to the constitution. There is certainty surrounding enumerated rights, while unenumerated rights are uncertain.
There isn’t. That doesn’t mean that this isn’t a noble cause, but come on. There’s no point in using the Constitution as the deciding factor of all that is good.
Americans are utterly obsessed with their constitution. They treat it like a holy book, despite (and perhaps sometimes because of) the fact that it’s pretty much impossible to convince enough people to change these days, despite it also needing changes.
This is a legal proceeding and the constitution is the fundamental basis for legal precedence in the US.
The government’s argument is not that this right cannot exist but that it is not presently defined.
This is a legal proceeding and the constitution is the fundamental basis for legal precedence in the US.
Someone should tell that to the supreme court.
While I very much disagree with many SCOTUS interpretations, many of the legitimate justices throughout the years have successfully espoused this policy
The current Supreme Court being largely a cruel joke does not falsify this claim
I mean…it doesn’t
Who thinks it does? What a silly idea
Correct, the constitution does not literally call out the right to a stable climate, however it’s kinda hard to make good on any other constitutional right if populations being culled by extreme heat becomes the new worldwide norm.
Yes, we should take aggressive action to eliminate every trace of fossil fuels currently in use.
But also, bringing legal action to enforce a law that pretty plainly doesn’t exist doesn’t do anyone any good.
Cool, but don’t try to make the legal argument that the Constitution says so and so when it doesn’t. It’s a giant waste of time and money.
Yeah the declaration of independence mentioned a few things like the rights of Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, all of which are impossible if the oceans are boiling. These politicians have failed in their duties.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
Did they even track and measure weather anywhere close to what we have now?
Following centuries old doctorines is still weird to me
It’s the basis of law and order. You can’t just do whatever you want, that’s a dictatorship.
I’m not arguing for anarchy haha
I’m just saying that it’s not modified more/restructured/etc
Seems like governmental philosophizing (surely there’s a term for this) has gone stale these days.
Good to know that nobody will be held accountable for the end of the world.
Can you, for one moment, stop thinking about the earth and instead focus on the profits and shareholder interests? Dont be selfish
Time for a new amendment then, bitches. Let’s fucking do this.
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Maybe pick your fights elsewhere? What, do you like the idea of you and everyone you know boiling alive? Gettin’ paid by Joe Biden to go to bat with the stupidest sentence ever?This is such a needlessly jaded and edgy comment, why did you even bother posting that? This isn’t 4chan lol
Breaking news: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include a right to a liveable environment.
(yes I know this is from the DOI, not the constitution, and has no legal force)
How can one live without a stable environment?
Apparently, the right to life and the right to keep living are two very different things to the justice department.
Then again, why are we surprised when a life spent is solitary confinement does not meet the definition of “cruel and unusual punishment” for the same group.
Uncomfortably.
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Apparently right to life is not right to live
To be fair, it’s the other side that has all that “right to life” hypocrisy.
Yeah, that’s true. Man, our options kinda suck.
What does the constitution day about computers and cars and genetic engineering?
AI robots, assault rifles.
Pack it in folks, we don’t have the right to live. Constitution doesn’t mean shit if there is no one around to read it.
Well, technically the Justice Department is correct. Which on the other hand should not imply that the government should just keep out of it.
But the climate change was mainly caused by people and corporations, so they are the ones to blame.
The constitution gotta protect guns in case the king of England invades your F250 but heaven forbid you protect the environment.
If someone’s invading your guns have already failed.
I feel like this is worded to be a jab at JB when it really shouldn’t be. Unfortunately it is true. At best they can say people have a right to not have the government subsidise the oil industry, mining operations and other things that are directly damaging, but they can’t guarantee clean air.
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The Constitution defines the government and sets its limits. If you’re looking for anything more than that, you’re going to be disappointed.