Why virtual reality makes a lot of us sick, and what we can do about it.
Posted this reply in another instance, but several years ago researchers found that adding a virtual nose dramatically decreased motion sickness. However, I haven’t seen any developers adding one in games. I wonder if it’d help.
When the camera movies without me physically moving, I am throwing up immediately. Do you mean a virtual nose would fix that?
Potentially, yeah. Here’s an article I found talking about the research: https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2015/Q1/virtual-nose-may-reduce-simulator-sickness-in-video-games.html
This is the detail I wanted to know:
Surprisingly, subjects did not notice the nasum virtualis while they were playing the games, and they were incredulous when its presence was revealed to them later
Our nose is cleverly edited out of our our awareness but it’s most certainly there. Apparently the virtual one is capable of straddling the same fence.
Ye! Tbh one of my biggest pet peeves with VRChat is the fact that they shrink your head to avoid it interfering with the player camera, but the result is that you don’t have a nose. It’s not as obvious with human/humanoid avatars because, like you said, it’s normally “edited out” by our brains (though you can probably see it if you want to by crossing your eyes, I know I can see mine); but it ends up being super obvious with furry avatars due to the lack of a snout/muzzle. That said, I’ve seen a few furry avatar creators starting to add a snout (not sure how they do that, I think they parent a copy of the face onto the head bone), and it’s pretty neat. Maybe other avatar creators will follow suit.
Ok that sounds interesting. I just though that glasses wearer might not have motion sickness as often due to the glasses being similar to the VR(or keeping the glasses under the Headset
I wear glasses (which I keep inside the helmet) and have mild motion sickness when moving in VR. The faster I move in-game, the worse it gets. Racing games are OK because I don’t move inside the car, I suspect having a static dashboard is similar to a virtual nose.
Glasses wearer here, I still see my nose with the glasses on. VR gives me mild motion sickness but only when moving around in a “smooth” way (Teleporting or walking irl is fine but using regular controller movement makes me want to throw up after ~30 minutes)
Findings showed the virtual nose allowed people using the Tuscany villa simulation to play an average of 94.2 seconds longer without feeling sick, while those playing the roller coaster game played an average of 2.2 seconds longer.
Yeah instead of throwing up immediately, you won’t throw up until 2.2 seconds in. Problem solved!
What about those, um, VR videos you can find online? I think 94 seconds is all I really need.
I don’t think you want a nose for those videos.
Don’t kink shame me
The “Tuscany Villa” is an ancient demo that I tried in the Oculus DK1 in like 2014 or so, and it made me sick for hours. It uses very fast continuous movement instead of teleport, and it has a set of stairs that will make you instantly throw up if you try to climb them.
It’s is perfectly possible to create VR experiences that will not make anyone nauseous, Moss being a good example.
So you are saying that 90s is a remarkable improvement?
I would expect a huge difference in the usefulness of a simulated nose, depending on the content. In a roller coaster the movement of your head (rotation) and the movement of the carriage (translation) are separate and clearly defined this way. You control the Rotation while the game controls the translation. I don’t know what this villa demo is, but depending on how the movement is controlled, an unintuitive and unnatural system is bound to make almost everyone nauseous.
Any app that moves the camera (or thw whole world) without user input will make people sick, it’s just a law of good VR. Any app that doesn’t render at a stable 72fps+ will make people sick. Any app that simulates things that make people sick in real life, will also make people sick in VR.
On the other hand, any app that keeps a stable 90fps, that uses teleport with a very short fade instead of thumbstick movement, and that never messes with the camera position, will not make people sick.
Most people who have tried VR and have felt sick, were basically victims of awful, non-optimized VR experiences, and awful VR hardware like Google Cardboard and variants.
Outside of that news article, I have literally never seen a single VR game use a virtual nose.
Eagle Flight uses it, but it is a beak instead of a nose.
Like with everything, it would cause an uproar in the game world unless it were controllable. I wonder if it would also require sacrificing some usable pixels? If virtual noses take off, I can see video games being designed around them, but it’s possible that integrating one into existing games is harder. Games have a development lead time measured in years so fundamental changes take a while to integrate.
40-70% and 80% for women sounds insanely high. I got a used HTC Vive to have beat saber parties with people and so far none out of about 20 people have experienced nausea even with heavy drinking.
Yeah, I would say there are definitely specific experiences you could make that make 80+% nauseous(I have pretty good VR legs but moving platforms can still disorient me). But a well designed VR game accounts for that, see something like Beat Saber.
Minecraft, sticking someone in the cockpit of a plane in war thunder are both no-nos from what I learned.
This. There is a reason why I can play beatsaber without feeling anything. But instantly get sick when playing pistol whip. The level moving around me is just disorienting.
I tried a vr headset at a convention where they had it just giving you a virtual tour of a farm to show off what the headset could do.
I had to take it off in less than 30 seconds because it was giving me a migraine and making me feel sick.
its an issue of refresh rate tbh.
I went from vr at 90fps/90hz to 144fps/144hz and i went from motion sick to acceptable.
That’s a factor but there’s many and they can vary from person to person. For some the lens type is an issue, for some people it’s simply inability to get it to fit your face properly.
The frame rate doesn’t matter if I start moving with a controller while I am sitting down IRL. I don’t get the motion sickness if I have to actually walk to move in the game, but the disconnect between moving in the game not matching the movement of my body is what really causes motion sickness for me.
But that’s something you can get used to, I fly FPV drones and that feeling was overwhelming in the beginning (way more intense than any VR I tried), but if you keep at it eventually you get used it.
I kept at it for 5 years; I never got rid of that kind of nausea. Only the nausea induced by the visual effect which I had even just playing, like, Work Simulator, at first.
The Fresnel lenses give me eye fatigue.
For me it’s the way the motion trackers map head movements, somewhat depends on how it’s implemented in the game, but there’s a way I can move my head that will give me instant nausea in any VR game. I’m not predisposed to motion sickness either, fine on rollercoasters etc.
As much as I want VR to be awesome, I’ve had motion sickness from playing Portal while sitting at a desk. Consequently, I think this is just one of those technologies that I have to be happy for other people to enjoy.
Just FYI, I can’t play FPS games without puking, but VR games work for me. The fact that my inner ear matches what I’m seeing in the game makes the difference.
Huh, suppose I’ll have to give it more of a chance. Which VR games have you particularly enjoyed?
Beatsaber obviously, alyx, in death unchained, superhot. Some of the notable ones I can think of offhand. There’s a pretty wide variety of genres though, so depending on if you like action, puzzlers, etc is going to matter a lot. It’s also been a year since I’ve played due to lack of space.
I couldn’t play portal 2 either (never tried 1). Made me sad knowing how awesome it’s supposed to be.
I managed to make it through both in a weekend or so, but it was rough.
HTC, Valve, and Oculus (well before the Facebook buyout) established very early on that frame rates of 90 fps or higher with a response time of <1 ms were critical factors for preventing motion sickness. Meta either hasn’t gotten the memo or just doesn’t care.
Even with well-established VR legs, I start feeling unpleasant if my FPS starts dropping below 75 for extended periods of time.
Aside from that, it’s also down to game development. I’ve been seeing newer, inexperienced VR developers creating scenes that don’t take into consideration how our brains perceive motion; and they end up creating some nausea-inducing scenes or game mechanics, in addition to doing things like shoving your head onto the floor or through an object. The easiest example is pressing into a wall or table, and the colliders shove your head and body back when you’re not expecting it.
What kind of statistic is 40-70%? For women It “goes up to 80%”, where does it start then? The numbers, what do they mean?
Usually when numbers are presented that way it’s because there are many studies they looked at. So I presume there was one study showing a rate of 40%, another showing 70% and the rest of the studies fell somewhere in between those two extremes, with differences likely due to types of games, types of systems, and any number of other factors, including chance. They could have just averaged all the studies and quoted a number like 55% for example, but I think the other way actually paints a better picture of the data. It’s still possible they’re full of shit, but just presenting the numbers like that doesn’t mean they’re pulling it out of their ass.
This isn’t even lies, damned lies, and statistics territory - it’s just nothing. I know VR motion sickness exists (I still get it even after an uncomfortable amount of time in SteamVR sometimes) but that’s… that’s not anything
There’s also different levels of VR. I can get sick with 3 degrees of freedom (pitch, yaw, and roll) if I move around with it on. But with 6 degrees (also includes movement along all 3axes), I’m peachy.
My best friend gets sick watching video games on a TV, but she does fine with 6DOF VR because it’s the disconnect between the motion she sees and what her body experiences that’s the problem
Yeah, if those numbers are anywhere near accurate I have had a significant outlier in my demos to the public so far. I have had less than 5% of the hundreds of people even get mildly nauseous. To get numbers like they are, I would have to cherry pick the worst possible experiences and not prep anyone at all.
“VR” doesn’t make most people throw up, being a terrible host might, but honestly even in that scenario I find their numbers hard to believe. Considering at least 30% of people are completely immune to it and don’t even need to be eased in at all. And another 30% would take a few hours of worst case scenario to get to a point where throwing up is even on the table. So unless they are specifically trying to provoke the worst possible response, their numbers aren’t even possible.
I wish more people who thought they couldn’t handle VR had come to me first. Or any responsible host.
For those with nausea, I’ve had some good results with ginger candy. Something chewable that is comprised entirely of ginger.
I take it with me whenever I give a demo somewhere.
Works in seconds.
Look for sea sickness remedies, you should find ginger chewing gum. Chewing gum itself reduces motion sickness and at least if you follow this study peppermint is actually more effective – though ginger itself (without the chewing part) is known to be effective so have you salt shaker ready to sprinkle on their sample size.
Try stuff and see what works for you, it’s not like you’re injecting chemotherapy meds.
Why though. So I might be able to reduce nausea to do… What. Be forced to see ads for shit I don’t want?
What do ads have to do with anything? I use vr to play video games.
There are more headsets than just Oculus.
As you get older, ginger is basically a cure for most things, and I’ve gone from hating it to craving ginger whenever I feel down.
Ginger candy and ginger beer are fantastic, as long as you’re using the stuff without sweeteners. Sadly, some brands load their stuff with lots of additives and artificial sweeteners to save costs/reduce sugar.
I went on a a VR rollercoaster with my new girlfriend (asian) at a amusement park where they move the cart according to the movement in VR.
She was totally OK, and I was totally wet of sweat, down to my underwear. I really almost puked.
But I have that problem even on a bus and in a car as a passenger (so I basically always drive if possible). Big ships, trains and airplanes are totally ok.
When I was about 9 I had to puke on the bus and my dad didn’t want to have to clean the buss so he let me puke into the pocket of his jacket 🤪
What does your gf being Asian have anything to do with this?
Because the article said that women have a higher chance to feel sick and Asian people have also a higher chance, and she is the combination of being a woman and being Asian, and despite that not having any problems. I thought it was noteworthy.
My girlfriend (asian 4’5, big booba)
Owned by a guy that actually read the article we are discussing. Story of my life
Chad dad
I’m in the other camp. The first time I squeezed my 155m spaceship through the tiny mouth of a rotating space station in VR, I wept like a baby. (An Anaconda in Elite: Dangerous)
First person shooters already make some people feel nauseous. It’s the disconnect between your vision telling you that you’re moving while everything else, especially your balance centers, saying you’re not.
VR kinda makes it even worse if you’re not on some 2D treadmill
I am a victim of this. It sucks.
I’m super glad I’m not one of them… I will baselessly credit the Nintendo 3DS with developing that skill
I’m young and have played computer games since childhood, I never bought a VR headset cause anything more than 20 minutes and I feel dizzy as fuck.
VR needs an overhaul for me to actually buy into it, I honestly just think the headsets aren’t going to work, I don’t think a higher refresh rate will fix this
I’m not sold on the gaming side of it but I loved my quest for movies. I’m planning to buy another one one day and it’s something that I’ll consider essential for old age retirement.
So not a problem at all?
Ikr? Lmao
I only play standing games that stick within the confines of room scale, that way all my movements are natural.
When I play other games, it’s teleport or nothing, no other locomotion form works for my, my sense of balance is to sensitive, and I haven’t had the time to work to get used to it… and swinging on vines is way out no.
Curiously I also get severe motion sickness when I drive go karts, but not when I drive cars. Although, sitting in the passenger seat, especially the rear seats, however can be a problem sometimes if I’m going around windy roads)
Today l learned that some people get motion sickness from playing flatscreen games. How do you even survive a car? Let alone an airplane?
Being in a car or aeroplane is totally different from playing a game, VR or otherwise. The motion sickness is a result of a mismatch between the sense of your own motion from what you are seeing, and the sense of your own motion from your inner-ear (which is basically an accelerometer).
In a car or an aeroplane, as long as you are looking at the window then there is no problem. (But often people get car-sick if they try to read a book or something, because then they can’t see the motion - they can only feel it.) But in a game, you can see the motion but not feel it - so that can also give motion sickness.
Many modern first-person games have an option for ‘mouse smoothing’ (or something similar), and that generally help reduce or eliminate motion sickness.
The problem is in a car, your body is actually moving and your sense of movement aligns with what your eyes are seeing. I’m not an expert but there’s something about fluid in your ears moving?
When it comes to gaming on a flat screen, your eyes are interpreting movement but you are not moving. This, from my understanding is what causes the motion sickness.
I can’t use these VR headsets because they make me sick and give me migraines. I’m just fine playing on a TV or monitor though.
I would get so incredibly sick when playing the original wolfenstein and Doom. But I could play halo for hours. Really weird
Some people don’t. That’s why air sickness bags exist.
