This recall is serious but hardly means that Honda or any manufacturer that issues a recall is a bad brand. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2023/11/17/honda-recall-acura-pilot-ridgeline-odyssey/71617360007/
You’re right, but I’m still going to poke fun at Toyota’s first EV where the wheels would literally fall off because it is too funny not to.
Maybe not but it evokes a lack of faith in the brand and then it Is all about advertising
Well it inspires less confidence in a brand if recalls are very common (Hyundai).
In my opinion, recalls do often indicate low-quality engineering or manufacturing. Engineer it correctly. Manufacture it correctly. And assemble it correctly.
It’s the least they could do for how much vehicles cost.
If there is a recall, SOMETHING was certainly “low quality”. Even if that was due to the torque wrench and/or lock-tight that they used to put the nut on a pinion shaft.
This is a low quality situation. I’m surprised it surmounted to a recall instead of a TSB.
Why would anyone compare this to other brand’s recalls for similar issues? Honda doesn’t appear to be fighting this or half assing it. Recall off the bat, relatively small number of affected engines, no hiding it, no whistleblowing, no you’re only eligible if you do this software update within this time period. Honda also won’t fight their customer base on this or their dealerships.
This post is a joke, nobody would be posting w/ this title if Mercedes had the recall.
I like how when it’s Brand A with the Recall about engines potentially grenading and catching fire someone jumps to defend recalls as not meaning the brand is bad.
But when Brand B has a similar recall it’s nothing but circle jerking about how awful a brand is and they should just stop making cars and anyone who buys them are idiots.
Because most recalls are design flaw, which is probably worse than Low quality
Depend on if it was a forced recall or not. If the manufacturer does a voluntary recall I’d take that as standing by their product.
I remember Toyota doing this back when the accelerator recall. Only a handful of models were affected, and only I believe 2 people died. Instead of recalling just the affected models, they recalled several million, just to be sure. Meanwhile, Chevy had to be forced to recall a bunch of cars when the Chevy Cruze was having issues with the steering wheels falling off. Or when the rear axle of the Ford Windstar would spontaneously collapse, possibly resulting in a rollover.
I remember Toyota doing this back when the accelerator recall. Only a handful of models were affected, and only I believe 2 people died. Instead of recalling just the affected models, they recalled several million, just to be sure.
You have a very selective memory. Toyota absolutely claimed there was nothing wrong with their vehicles, and only issued a recall after being forced to by the feds. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming the entire way.
They also settled a lawsuit for over a billion dollars in 2014 to avoid prosecution for covering up the defect in the first place.
And to be clear, the two issues were:
- a design flaw in the accelerator pedal that allowed it to become entrapped by floor mats
- pedals manufactured by CTS that could “stick.” Toyota failed to notify NHTSA of this sticking defect for 4 months, which is what led to fines and the settlement.
Not just that but also extremely shoddy programming that meant a single random bit flip could cause the engine to be stuck at WOT:
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf
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True, but that requires two hands and I’m lazy
Well it seems to depend who’s issuing it. If this was a GM or Stellantis recall I’d bet money people would be making fun of them and saying how garbage they are.
Correct. Whenever Toyota / Honda does a recall, people give them excuses like “well it’s good they’re fixing it now, they’re just taking ownership” and “they’re still great cars”. Meanwhile Stellantis does a recall for something mundane and all I hear is “lol FCA bad”.
FCA is bad tho…lol. The fact they released cars like the Dodge Avenger and Caliber under their badge to the masses.
As somebody that works in GM parts, a new recall is just another day on the job. Weekly I’ll have to sign off that I’ve read about a new/updated recall, and it’s usually a half dozen to a dozen different documents.
Lately it seems it hasn’t been much different for any other brand. All the new tech and increasingly complexity of vehicles means more parts = more recalls.
I’ve been preaching the reduction of quality in Honda products and I get slammed by Honda fan boy every time I do. After 20 years of Accord ownership and the issues I had to deal with in 2021 I bought a car from a different brand new and so far so good. There are no warranty issues and no recalls. My car is a 2020 Ford Fusion S.
Their turbo products simply aren’t the same as their NA engines were. The 1.5T is unfortunately a step backwards in the reliability space.
I wonder if any of those small turbo engines from any manufacturer are durable and reliable? I know the Ford 1.5 turbo likes to drink coolent and self destruct.
Surprisingly I haven’t heard much bad about the VW 1.4/1.5s. Knocking on wood for mine…
When someone buys a base model Fusion over a Honda, you know that shit’s going south at Honda.
Or Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, Subaru, Mitsubishi, or any German brand (especially Mercedes)
This sub has selective memory… the Japanese brands have had huge issues since the 2000s. Honda/Acura automatic transmissions in early 2000 models failing. Engine sludge buildup issues in Toyota engines. More recently lots of AC issues and failures with Honda cars. Oil dilution issues with the Honda L15 turbo engine. Etc.
These are quality issues, most recent ones are caused by cost cutting and cutting corners with parts and production to make more money per car sold. Paint quality in a Honda has been shit ever since they switched to water based.
Every old Honda I’ve ever owned the ac went out around 80-90 k. The one in my 8th gen si went at 112. I have a 2012 tsx and so far so good at 154k. I mean I’ve had 20 year old Silverado’s with over 200k with ice cold blasting ac.
My favorite thing is how they’re put on this pedestal but Chevy and ford get shit on because V8’s might need a recall on a Dis or a manifold. JDM is more like “the whole engine is set to fail at 60k miles unless you take apart the engine, and our Autos are made of glass” meanwhile we still have dragsters using old American tech to go as fast as possible.
There’s a reason a LS1 swap kit is available for every car/truck out there
While yes i agree that the japanese brands get put on a pedestal for misguided reasions, american small cars really are junk.
i’ll still take a civic over a focus or a cruze
Dragsters engines based on the design only. V8 with hemi heads. Theyve been improved over the decades
Agreed on the Hemi heads. Dragsters have their own ecosystem of acceptable mods and how far trimming can be done while stay reliable enough. I always wondered what kind of engines these 1500-2000hp dragsters were running. By that point it’s gotta be unique to the Dragster
This. Since 2000, Honda has had serious brakes, engine, and transmission problems. So many people remember the 90s when they think of Honda.
Don’t forget their garbage paint.
I gotta say though we have a Honda with that CVT issue and it’s been the case of ‘well, no point replacing it now, we’ll just run the car until it dies and scrap it’ for 200k km’s lol. It shudders but it won’t die
Toyos also had bad head gaskets in the 90s
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The transmission issues were solved in 2007~ish
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I’m not a big Toyota fanboy but I’m pretty sure engine sludge stopped 2008~ish because our 2008 Highlander maintenance brochure specifically tells you to get an oil change ASAP to avoid sludge buildup. I think that was the first year they used the 2GR-FE on the Highlander too which didn’t have the buildup issues.
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AC failure? Doesn’t seem like I’ve been hearing many issues about that in Hondas.
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The oil dilution issues were supposedly fixed in the newer 1.5Ts.
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FUCK HONDA PAINT. It is damn near impossible to find a 90s Accord or Civic with paint that doesn’t look like shit and costs to repaint as much as the car does!
Also, more American cars had these issues than Japan did, hence why we barely mention them.
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To be fair, the sludge issues on Toyota’s part were with a single engine family— the Toyota MZ family, used in the Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Solara, Sienna and the Lexus RX and ES. That by no means is a small recall, but it’s one of few isolated incidents in their engine program. Everything else though? Search up “stuck throttle” on YouTube and you get Mark Saylor’s ES350 crash as one of the first results. And that’s not to mention the Takata Airbag recalls, but that encompassed a massive scope of makes and models.
Toyota 2az engines have problem with stripping head bolt, it was common issue in the Camry, and valve stem seals too
A/C issues killed my civic for me, the dealer wanted $2500 CAD to fix it so I had to sell it instead and cut my losses. It’s a very common issue on the last Gen civic unfortunately.
When the car spends more time at the dealer, trying to fix it, than your house
NHTSA Campaign Number: 23V751000
Manufacturer Honda (American Honda Motor Co.)
Components ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING
Potential Number of Units Affected 248,999
Summary
Honda (American Honda Motor Co.) is recalling certain 2015-2020 Acura TLX, 2016-2020 Acura MDX, 2016 and 2018-2019 Pilot, 2017 and 2019 Ridgeline, and 2018-2019 Odyssey vehicles. Due to a manufacturing error, the connecting rod bearing in the engine may wear and seize, damaging the engine.
Remedy
Dealers will inspect and repair, or replace the engine as necessary, free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed January 2, 2024. Owners may contact Honda customer service at 1-888-234-2138. Honda’s numbers for these recalls are XG1 and GG0.
Well there are a quarter of a million people who might be getting a visit from uncle Rodney it seems. I feel that even once the recall is finished, people would rather part ways
Uncle Rodney taking a break from Subaru to hang with Honda/Acura it seems.
Yeah, this definitely sounds like low quality, lol
I mean, it depends on who issued it and what the recall is addressing. Context is important. A recall for software isn’t necessarily concerning, but one for a design flaw in an essential component definitely is
What if it is the software in the (for example) new Chevy Colorado that controls your headlights (they are only controlled through the center screen)?
In my time as a factory trained Porsche Tech (1993 to 2003) we had lots of recalls on Porsche cars. Audi had them too.
The brand name really doesn’t have anything to do with recalls. All makes and models can have issues, some issues occur after some years of production. In some instances like the Takata airbag recall, it becomes a mutli product lines issue. In that case its a vendor issue.
While this is true, some parts are so simple and have been designed/updated with so much experience and feedback, the defect can only be because of Quality control or Bad design.
Like if shopping around get them the material that is so cheap it is not the same, if the parts weren’t treated or finished like designed, if the tolerances are the issue or some other problems you would think should not be an after decades of engineering in engines.
I would appreciate more infos on if manufacturers have something like design rules that would say any rod bearing for cranks of X diameter,x oil grade made to spin to x RPM and up to X operating temperature needs to have X fitment and X metal treatment to avoid this issue.
There’s a lot to engine design, and something as relatively simple as bearings requires advanced knowledge in tribology and fluid dynamics.
You can design for a certain oil with a certain dilution rate but if the oil standards change or the real-world dilution rate is different, you may have failures due to cavitation. You can design for a certain dynamic clearance but if someone else changes the rod bolt spec or something as “simple” as thread fit changes, you may have failures.
Then there are things like manufacturer errors in fatigue strength or embedability or conformability, things that can only be known with a strict quality control regimen.
Thanks for clearing this out.
I figured there would still be enough documentation through previous engine generations (J series V6 engines have been built and upgraded since 1996) to have the main issues and main limits figured out for their purpose (fuel efficient urban driving and urban/crossover levels of towing capacity). Basically it would be fully optimised by then and only be tweaked around knowing anything else pushes the failure rate.