If China transitions from coal to green energy they can a climate leader!
Could it also have anything to do with the fact that China’s economy is in a shambles and the property sector (where most Chinese wealth is locked in) is about to collapse?
If a nearly 6% growth rate is a shambles then I’d love to see my country in shambles
Nah, Chinese EVs are still selling fine.
It’s incredible how much it’s grown in 3 years, if it keeps going like that and VW and Toyota still have no attractive EVs to offer they’ll become small players in the Chinese market.
A mighty ship can weather the storms. Never sleep on Toyota. Never sleep on Japan, for that matter.
I worked in China but left right after the initial pandemic lockdown in June 2020, back then I barely saw any electric cars on the streets (lived in a big second tier city, not 100% sure on cities like Beijing and Shanghai). Mostly buses and taxis were electric, and only partially.
Now I go on Youtube and look at footage of China’s streets and it’s completely changed.
I was in hangzhou in late 2019, and even back then I was surprised t the number of EVs. About half our taxis were EVs, all local brands. I also saw a mall dealership for XPENG, which were pretty impressive looking.
The Chinese government is pushing for green and renewable energy, it make perfect sense, they do not want to be dependent on oil/gas import. Also for the environment, the air quality is not great over there.
I believe one of my coworkers went back to China recently, and he told me even the buses are electric now.
There has been an explosion of EVs in China over the past few / couple years. Mind boggling. Its about 50/50 between ICE and new energy vehicles in cities like Shanghai in 2023 and probably will be 70/30 in favour of EVs in a couple more years.
VW is actually already on the upswing again: https://carnewschina.com/2023/11/09/top-selling-car-brands-in-october-2023-in-china/
I’m not sure I’d call barely beating Xpeng and Leapmotor in EV sales while being outsold 2 to 1 by the likes of GAC Aion and Li Auto to be sales “recovering nicely”, and that’s only because VW has been putting some huge discounts on their ID cars.
Meanwhile literally every month the domestic Chinese EV makers are introducing brand new EVs right in the same segment as the ID3/4/6, while VW has no replacement for those vehicles in sight, at least not in the next 18 to 24 months.
Compared to selling pretty much nothing and compared to their millions of ICEV sales having hit an iceberg, yes VW’s EV sales have recovered nicely. You are comparing on a completely different axis than the one I was basing my argument on.
Note the comment I responded to. It made a forward looking argument aimed at EVs. EVs is the segment of the market where VW has a positive outlook. The EV revolution is going at full steam. I argue nothing more and nothing less.
If Toyota and Honda don’t get their act together soon, they’re going to get Kodak’d. Right now, they’re still quite profitable because there’s still enough market inertia, at least in the US, for them to keep selling more ICE. But if they miss the tipping point, then they’re at risk of being too far behind to catch up.
On the flip side, given China’s disastrous economic trends, it’s just as likely that China as we know it doesn’t exist in three years.
Tell someone where you get your news from without telling someone where you get your news from.
do yourself a favor and stop following MSM for anything related to China, Russia, Iran, Israel, NK.
2 more weeks!
China knows that dependency on oil tankers that must traverse many U.S. chokepoints are not good for them, so they support the battery and EV industries. It’s smart.
By mid-century countries least dependent on fossil fuels will have a significant edge.
By mid-century countries least dependent on fossil fuels will have a significant edge.
Significant edge is a vast understatement in my opinion.
BYD is a beast. When sales in China slow, they will start aggressively exporting. It’s going to be a wild decade.
They bought 6 ships awhile back. How many EV makers have their own shipping fleet? They are exporting now but my guess after a couple of sales they are going to increase exports to wherever they are selling. They don’t want to just drop a bunch of EVs into foreign markets. They want to grow them.
RIP Santana Vista
How good are these cars outside of China? Now that they are in Europe when will they come to the American market?
BYD is currently the second largest EV company here in Australia despite just having 1 model. With the Dolphin launched 2 weeks ago, the Seal coming early 2024 along with a pickup and possibly another SUV, I won’t be surprised they take #1.
The MG4 also won our car of the year in Australia. The MG4 also won car of the year in the UK I believe.
5 years ago, 1 in 100 Australian drove a Chinese brand car. Today that is 1 in 10 Australian. If you include cars made in china, that becomes 1 in 5 Australian.
We’re seeing the same cycle repeat itself, the same is happening today with Chinese cars what happened with Japanese and Korean cars decades ago. Western makers with their gas guzzler land yachts resting on their laurels losing the battle against more efficient and better built Asian products, sending them into a panic where the only recourse they have is to beg the government to issue protectionist policies to prevent them from being swept away. It would make sense if the Western cars were still made locally, but in the globalised and heavily automated economy of today I don’t see governments finding it too worthwhile to kneecap their own energy transition just to protect a couple thousand jobs that can be retrained into other industries anyway.
It would make sense if the Western cars were still made locally employing hundreds of thousands of workers, but in the globalised and heavily automated economy of today I don’t see governments finding it too worthwhile to kneecap their own energy transition just to protect a couple thousand jobs that can be retrained into other industries anyway.
The entire supply chain of legacy automakers and their tangled web of interconnected subcontractors employ millions in industrialized countries like the US, Germany, Japan, South Korea - they are a deeply important voting block that can easily doom the long-term prospects of political parties whose politicians remove tariffs and other mechanisms (leading to the collapse of their legacy automakers and suppliers).
The US is a great example, Joe Biden needs UAW support to win Michigan. Without Michigan and other auto union heavy states like Wisconsin - he’s not winning reelection.
I don’t see governments finding it too worthwhile to kneecap their own energy transition just to protect a couple thousand jobs that can be retrained into other industries anyway.
Happening in real time right now in the USA after decades and decades of blocking green energy and offshoring everything. Now, it’s all about blocking specifically China.
The workaround seems to be buying another brand American consumers are already somewhat familiar with, then sneaking cars here under that brand. Right now that’s limited to Volvo, Polestar, and Lotus, but there’s no reason MG couldn’t happen in the future (and frankly I hope it does, as the MG4 is sharp!).
Someday it may be Apple brand cars made in China. They could buy Lucid assets in bankruptcy.
The Lotus situation is really funny.
They say the car was designed in the UK but actually it was in Geely’s design studio not Lotus which is probably Just a front so they can say this. Lotus engineered 0 of this car.
The profit of each Electric Lotus sold outside of the UK goes directly to Geely and they pay Lotus a licencing fee for using their name.
Absolute shit show, one of the reasons I left cause I see no future in the company.
I think China bought into some of those brands when they were getting into making ICE. Then Li-Ion batteries came along and China was “hold my beer”.
Saudi is like China in that they are more interested in the industry than the company. Saudi is also doing other things with green energy too.
Sure, China would love to make and sell cars in USA but since the trade war I think they are OK with building factories in other countries like Mexico and just, you know, selling EVs to the whole world (except USA).
America will need to wait. Too much political risk for Chinese companies to invest there.
Maybe not directly, the closest we have is the Fisker Ocean, which is based on the Arcfox alpha-t, but assembled by Magna in Austria. So while there might be politics at play, we’re indirectly getting Chinese based EV tech.
Polestar 2 has been in the US for years.
They’re fantastic. The Japanese should be on notice since they seem to be ignoring electric. The US traditional domestics (Big 3) will need to step up their electric game. BYD, NIO, etc have it figured out.
VW is so ugly and expensive, it’s a waste of showroom space.
The lower you go in the range, the uglier it gets
lol, legacy makers just dont get it do they? BYD is about to overtake them all.
Wouldn’t be surprised.
I just switched to EV with the MG4 and it’s proved that I’m ready to live full time as EV only, worked great for my living situation. When I think about what EV do I actually want? It’s a dual motor Seal.
It’s the same price as the Tesla model 3, and the polestar 2. I get drawn to the model 3 because of the UI and sentry mode, that’s the only things. The seal is much better as a package, I’ll just have to invest in a decent dash cam with parking mode.
question. I read that Chinese EVs weren’t taken seriously by the public until about 2020, when Giga Shanghai came over. Apparently Tesla’s requirements raised the bar for Chinese EV parts suppliers and now all Chinese EV brands have access to world-class parts. Is that a big reason behind this as well?
It’s more that there was no real competition in the EV space so plenty of OEMs sort of phoned it in, and while that was fine for city cars having an actually competitive EV in the “core” market of sedans and crossovers made everyone else get serious
Xi even thanks Elon in APEC meeting.
This was going to happen with or without EV’s. The Chinese aren’t going to sit around and let foreign corporations run the show in any market.
theyre going to be the jdm of ev cars.
Maybe not, but this is not manipulation, China have just started making very good EVs and selling them at competitive prices.
Vw made the bed it now has to sleep in
Before Tesla experienced a significant price reduction in January 2023, I was considering the ID 4 and Bolt EV, but neither was available. After Tesla slashed the prices of Model 3 and Y by 20%, my focus shifted exclusively to getting Tesla, so I purchased model Y and now saving money for my future second Tesla.
This trajectory better stop/change soon if we want to maintain western automotive manufacturing.
First trinkets, then tools and electronics, now the bigger things. Seeing Chinese manufacturers show up in heavy equipment as well. These are good paying jobs I don’t want to give away.
Oh, too late. ZPMC already dominates US ports. The nation will paralyze if you try to force them out, no joke.
Change can occur at any time, but you need a collective will to start.
Hard to build collective will when US culture is rooted in everyone trying to make a buck ripping off the next guy.
That’s not the problem, the problem is that many people don’t think this is even a problem, or believe it’s futile to try to correct the course.
I bought a Tesla because I knew it was made in the US. That was the number one reason for me. How you spend your money matters.