These are some of mine:

  1. Pepe was actually a better defender than Ramos, but Ramos’ knack for important goals (not a defender’s job) and what he won with Spain made him the better player in people’s eyes.

  2. Courtois should have been in the top 3 of the ballon D’or ranking in 2022.

  3. Xavi was a more complete midfielder than Iniesta. He pressed better, controlled games better, gave better weighted passes, and was also a good dribbler when pressed (Iniesta was the better dribbler overall). I’d say he was the better one.

  4. Modric and Kroos have far bigger careers with Madrid than Zidane did.

  5. Zidane and Ronaldinho were great players but were sometimes frustrating to watch and ineffective even in their primes. Their convoluted style of doing simple things made them highlight champions.

  6. Luis Garcia generally played the biggest role in taking Liverpool to the UCL final in 2005, but his name is hardly mentioned when that UCL win is mentioned (Gerrard, the Scouse, vs Garcia, the foreigner)

  7. Pique was a better defender than Puyol. The latter was prone to mistakes and making rash decisions, while Pique was far more intelligent.

  8. Eto’o had a bigger impact in Barca than Suarez did. The former came in 2004 when Barca hadn’t won the league since ‘99. He became the league top scorer for two straight seasons as Barca won the league, then the league and UCL double. He also won the treble in 2008/09. Suarez, on the other hand, came when Barca were already dominant, but just having a bad spell.

  9. Gerrard dived for the penalty which led to Liverpool’s equalizer in 2005 UCL final.

  10. Carvalho is the most underrated defender in his generation. He was basically Mourinho’s wingman.

  11. If Lampard played in this age, with those same stats, he’d be recognized as the best amongst the three.

What are yours?

  • HaxboyYT@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    1. Kroos has been the best and most consistent midfielder in the world for the past decade or so but he doesn’t get as much credit because he’s not as flashy as Modric. I honestly think Kroos is better than Modric and that he’s a top 3 passer of all time, top 5 at worst.

    2. CR7 is an underrated playmaker because he gets compared to Messi and so is stuck with this pure goalscorer label. If Messi didn’t exist, Ronaldo would be considered a top 5 playmaker amongst attackers of all time.

    3. The Ballon Dor is an overrated award with no consistency whatsoever unless the winner is absolutely clear cut like Benzema 2022. In 2021, Lewandowski absolutely deserved that Ballon Dor but then we were told that past seasons (like 2020) shouldn’t matter. Fast forward to 2023 and Messi wins again because he’s Messi and he won the WC. I thought the history of the player didn’t matter? Switch Messi’s season with any other player (except maybe Ronaldo) and Haaland is winning his first.

    4. The world class players directly under the Ronaldo and Messi level like Lewandowski, Suarez, Neymar, Neuer, Salah, De Bruyne, etc would be considered all time greats, as in top 20 if not top 10 if they played in any other era, and are better than a lot of players in that category.

    5. Man United are going to finish top 4 this season ahead of Chelsea, Spurs and Villa. We haven’t won a single game convincingly this season so far and yet we’re only 5 points off Spurs who’s currently 4th. Once our injured are back, we will stumble our way to a UCL spot and will surpass Spurs whose next 4 games are City, Villa, West Ham and Newcastle.

    6. There is no European top 5. It’s a top 4 of the Prem, Serie A, La Liga and the Bundesliga. The next three are on the same level (Ligue 1, the Portuguese league and Eredivisie). It should be the European top 4 and the Other 3.

    7. The definition of “World Class” shouldn’t be a player who walks into any team, but a player who is top 5 in the world in their respective position. This is easier to agree with and more objective because some players just won’t fit in other systems, e.g. Trent AA.

  • PunchOX@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Tactfully, I don’t think tap in merchants deserve hate since the ability to score goals are very important. Entertainment wise it’s a different story but I bet anyone who team is going through a goal scoring rough patch won’t mind adding a talented goal poacher to their squad.

    • jlo1989@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      That’s really only the Tiktok generation who think the only positions are winger and attacking mid.

      • ApartButton8404@alien.topBEnglish
        1·
        11 个月前

        it’s not even a tiktok thing it’s an english thing. I’ve never seen someone that wasn’t english complain about tap ins

    • Dyxo@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      No normal football fan thinks that, that’s just an internet thing

  • Goriboliveira@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Agree with almost everything Eto’o being more impactful than Suarez does not make him the better player. He wasn’t as impactful because Barca had Messi and the rest, whilst Samuel had a good team obviously (prime Ronaldinho and Deco) but he took that team to another level.

    • This-Zookeepergame31@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      You have to remember that Argentina had an average “okay” team and Napoli were nearly relegated the season before he came. Dragging a mid or poorly performing team to trophies when you arrive? With multiple teams? That’s the epitome of greatness.

      Messi and Ronaldo played with loaded teams and in fact, Messi was not the team-carrier/dragger Maradona was. Ronaldo is ahead of Messi on that category but still behind Maradona by a pretty large margin in my eyes simply because he played for such great teams.

      • Goriboliveira@alien.topBEnglish
        1·
        11 个月前

        Argentina was not mid. That’s a myth but yeah he was the architect of that WC win it’s true. He was amazing but I feel like his peak was not that long compared to the other’s. He has way less goals than the other, has way less titles and I feel the truth about him was the he only played for small teams, but it is absolutely not. Look he was outstanding, not denying. I just feel the others have accomplished wayy more. Pele has 3 WC wins and has over 700 goals in his career. Messi has won everything and he did carry his teams, but it’s true he played in great teams as well. He carried Argentina to WC win tbh. CR7 won 5 UCL and was the main man in all of them, won two titles with Portugal which is historic and is the highest goalscorer of all time. Cruyff was revolutionary on the pitch, scored more goals than Maradona, won 3 UCL.

  • smashhazard@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前
    1. Is a wild take. I presume you’re talking about the games leading up to the final and not the final itself? Other than the semi final, how did Garcia play a bigger role than Gerrard? If it wasn’t for Gerrard burying that goal against Olympiakos then there would be no semi final.

    As for Gerrard diving for the penalty, I don’t think many would argue with that. Dudek was also about 3 feet off his line when he saved Shevchenkos penalty but what you gonna do!

  • Thsaxd@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Does anyone think that Zidane had a better RM career than Kroos and Modric? Asking as a Real Madrid fan. Zidane was great, but only won 2 league titles and 1 UCL during his 5 years at the club iirc. Modric has won 3 league titles, 5 ucl’s and a lot of other smaller trophies while Kroos has 1 less UCL. Both of them have been vital to the success we have had for the last decade

  • ElBravooo@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    It’s crazy how I agree with everything here lol

    Ramos was a fantastic player but his defensive abilities were above average, nothing special.

  • True_Contribution_19@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    I just can’t see why people rate Messi so far clear as the best player of all time. Especially when his career post 2015 is just not that good. There are so many gaping holes but people just seem content that he’s basically been a flat track bully for 8 years with 0 CL success.

    Messi 2009-12 and 2015 was unbelievable and arguably the best player of all time. Messi from 2016 to 2022 was just nothing compared to the greats and consistently failed in big games, despite having a much better attacking cast than Ronaldo, Ronaldo dominated football for 3 years like nothing we’ve ever seen but people pretend that it didn’t happen.

    Messi might be the best passer, dribbler, playmaker, goal scorer, free kick taker and all those things, just so long as it’s not world class opposition and it’s not a big game. So how does that end with him being this unanimous goat? In 2018 he went out of the CL to Roma, Roma then played Liverpool and were 4-0 down in the first half.

    2019 was the perfect example, a brilliant first leg and then he needs one goal to basically win the Champions League and he turns up with nothing against Liverpool. He still won the Balon Dor? Ahead of VVD, who was on the pitch in the biggest game of the season and kept a clean sheet against Messi, then did it again in the final while Messi watched on TV.

    A couple of years ago he won’t the Balon Dor for a glorified friendly against Brazil where he didn’t even do anything?

    This year he won despite being the 3rd best player in the world (at best) and not even close to the treble winning goal machine who didn’t move to play in America after struggling in France all year.

    Messi vs Bayern in 2015 might be the best player ever, nothing after that ever even came close but people pretend he had this insane longevity as the best player in the world. He was closer to the 3rd best player in the world than he was to Ronaldo during 2016-19.

    • Striking_Material696@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      People forget that after neymar left Barcelona, the management absolutely piss griefed the transfer market, yet Barcelona was still able to win a lot in spain (over real Madrid, whose weak spell came after Ronaldo left later)

      In that time Messi and Suarez carried Barcelona, and made a bunch of disfunctional players win actual games.

      Although i think the Ballon dor is a fake trophy, messi and ronaldo were by far the best players in the past 10-15 years with their dedication, team and individual achievements with a rarely seen longevity, BUT outside of benzema and modric there were definately other players who had a better season than messi and ronaldo

    • FlexeFelux@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      i do think he is the goat.

      after 2015 he has won 3 ballon d’ors! look at his performance against Tottenham at Wembley in 2019, that rivales the Bayern game i think. As for the Liverpool away game, he actually played a very good match individually. he was let down by Barca’s deffense. as for the ballon d’ors. i think it’s only 2021 that can be argued it should have gone to Levy. Look at his WC campaign performance! He was going at it in the biggest game of all against an almost prime Mbappe. And he was effective for all of the 120 mins.

      i will end with asking you 2 questions.

      1. What’s the feeling you get when you watch Messi play?

      2. Have you ever seen another player that could do more with a football than Messi?

  • IcemanGeneMalenko@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Gerrard didn’t play for, nor carry a shit team between 2004-07. They were the 2nd toughest team to break down in that period (possible in Europe except MAYBE Milan) behind possibly the best defensive team of the prem era in Chelsea.

    Stats should NOT be the first port of call when trying to compare players, especially attacking players.

    Mousa Dembele was one of the best central midfielders to ever play in the prem, he just didn’t have the longevity or success of others.

    Chelsea’s 15 goals conceded season is less likely to be broken than a quadruple, unbeaten season or another 100 pointer.

    Van Dijk is a level above Vidic.

    Mane at his best was better than Salah. In periods he was genuinely unplayable- more so than Salah.

    Putting myself in defenders shoes, Drogba at his best would have been the single most difficult striker to defend against in the history of the prem.

    The ballon d’Or gets FAR too much attention.

    Ronaldinho was a bigger “what if” than R9.

    • Choccybizzle@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      So many defenders talk about how Drogba being the most difficult striker to play against. Oddly, a lot of defenders from the early 2000s talk about Louis Saha being really difficult to mark as well.

      • IcemanGeneMalenko@alien.topBEnglish
        1·
        11 个月前

        His goal at Stamford bridge against Liverpool when he spun Carra(?) and left foot half volley past Reina, you can’t really do anything against that as a defender

    • _K_D_L_@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      Agree with everything except Ronaldinho and Ronaldo. No telling how great Ronaldo could have been without so many severe injuries.

      • IcemanGeneMalenko@alien.topBEnglish
        1·
        11 个月前

        For me it’s even just on natural ability with the ball at his feet from what i’ve seen, in Ronaldinho was the 2nd to Messi imo. He had too much fun playing football, nothing wrong with that given he won it all, but i’d love to have seen his career trajectory if he had it like CR7 between the ears.

    • EnJPqb@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      Funny that, I agree with all of them (some more than others) EXCEPT the last one. And it’s a HARD DISAGREE.

      The true Ronaldo was amazing before injury. He was odds-on to become the absolute GOAT, with only the “strictly striker” tax as a hindrance. But all about him was incredible, with and without the ball, powering it or finessing it, carrying the ball or striking it.

      I think Ronaldinho reached his absolute ceiling at his peak at Barcelona. He went from being one of the best, and a bit of a “highlights merchant” just a bit better than say Denilson, to being very clearly the best player in the world for two-three years. I go with three because after a couple of months at FCB he was already it and even more “carrying the team”. It was an amazing growth. What if? He might have kept it up for what, a year or two being more professional? I actually doubt it. And his impact on games not being at that physical peak did hinder him a lot.

      I don’t know, maybe it’s coming from a country with a lot of Futsal that has seen glorious Futsal players not cut the mustard at XIs.

      But I’ll leave it at… Ronaldo Nazario had his career ending injury at what? 22? And was banging them in at elite level over 30, but limping. Ronaldinho dropped his level at what, 26-27? And then had a better physique than peak Maradona. And would anyone rate Ronaldinho over Ronaldo as a player? So the big what if is, what if there’s no leg break?

      Unless you mean what if Ronaldinho didn’t sign for Barcelona? Would he have been considered the best player in the world at some point? Don’t get me wrong, I think Ronaldinho’s game raised the game of the squad, not the other way round. And Ronaldo’s FCB served pretty dire football. But it was that signing that had an enormous effect in him.

  • Clem_Crozier@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    I disagree that Gerrard dived in the 05 final. If he’d stayed on his feet, he would have had a one-on-one chance as good as, if not easier than the subsequent penalty, and if the referee didn’t give the penalty he would have thrown a great opportunity away for nothing.

    Rafa also didn’t let the fouled player take the penalty, hence Xabi Alonso taking it. No way was Gerrard voluntarily handing over the opportunity to score the equaliser in that match.

  • cockneyidiot@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    I hate the winter transfer window and believe the summer transfer window should be closed before any of the countries league campaigns begin. The season should only be contested by a team’s squad at the start of the season.

    I understand it is difficult when each countries season starts at different times but then I would try to get them into sync as much as possible, such as all countries in UEFA.

  • Stunning_Fee_8960@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Henry bottled chances he normally scores with ease in that champions league final for Arsenal

    Rooney doesn’t get the praise he deserves and probably never will

    The Arsenal invisibles should have won a hell of a lot more

    Ronaldo (Not Christiano) is the GOAT no one can change my mind on that but 2 cruciate ligament injuries got in the way

    Drogba doesn’t get the praise he deserves

    While this current generation of English players is good in a combined 11 the early 2000s would have more from that generation in it

    Alan Shearer should have gone to Man Utd

    If Ibra played in the prem in his prime he would be a bigger star than he is

    • D-biggest-dick-here@alien.topOPBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      Drogba was inconsistent though. He wasn’t the kind of striker a club could rely on for league title wins. Lampard helped cover that. Drogba was just a big game player

    • FlexeFelux@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      i agree with the Rooney and Drogba ones.

      But Messi is the goat in my humble opinion.

  • _theMAUCHO_@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    Ramos kept being an amazing defender far after Pepe left or was riding the bench. Ramos and Varane won the threepeat. Varane has been exposed at United. I’ll let you do the math.

  • Sedso85@alien.topBEnglish
    1·
    11 个月前

    6 is bullshit, as a liverpool fan(that goes to Anfield) Garcia is considered a legend at Anfield

    9 he won that foul

    • kebabby72@alien.topBEnglish
      1·
      11 个月前

      Agreed. Garcia is a legend and still closely linked to the club. Gatusso was an accident waiting to happen and Gerrard played him.