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China’s EV revolution showcases the power that state actors have when an industry is a matter of national security.
China has marginal domestic O&G reserves, so moving off of O&G is incredibly important for Chinese interests.
And since the oil and gas companies in China are nationalized, they will follow along with the government’s plans rather than obstruct or bribe their way as with for-profit private oil and gas companies in many western countries.
Woah hold the phone, you’re telling me there’s a way to build society OTHER than by explicitly rewarding greed and exploitation‽
It is a similar story in Saudi Arabia and many Arab countries. The oil and gas is nationally owned, and the revenues are being used to finance a massive welfare state as well as the transition away from fossil fuels.
They also don’t seem to have many standards either. Specs and reviews I’ve seen seem to jump generations within a few months. I think my favorite ridiculous spec was the ability to use two fast chargers (one on either side of the car since it has two plugs) to pump some 300 miles in 5-10 minutes. It’s wild to read about the stuff they’re doing.
Is there any safety reason to not be able to have two plugs? I could see that being something we could do to renovate western gas stations for EVs in order to facilitate the transition. Just have two plugs side by side so Jim-bob could get his 300 miles in 10 minutes with electric just lol he does with his diesel now
Definitely heat, and a design to handle it. Ford has an issue with some Mach-E’s that the power junction would weld itself shut if you used the DC fast charger and floored the car shortly after. Once that happened it bricks the car and you gotta replace the part.
All EVs still require coal or oil for the electricity. And that doesn’t even factor in mining for the metals to make these things.
EV are okay but they’re not a solution to our resource consumption problem.
Edit: imagine being mad at the truth lol?
You seem to be forgetting that wind, solar, geothermal, hydroelectric, and nuclear power exist.
Not to mention that, even with coal generating the energy for the cars, EVs still have lower lifetime emissions than any ICE car.
But there is still the precious metal mining which often is diesel engines.
The point is regardless of what we use it is a bandaid to the issue. That issue being over mining our very limited resources
Diesel engines have nothing to do with what we were talking about.
And even if you want to call it a “band-aid”, that’s still better than letting the wound continue to bleed. It slows us down and gives us a chance to course correct, rather than barrelling ahead over the cliff at full speed.
The wound will still bleed our society is not sustainable.
You’re right. Let’s do nothing instead.
It’s not sustainable why are you mad at me for the reality of the situation. The capitalists are selling you on this being a cure all your anger should be with them
Except that many places are majority renewables for electricity
That use plastics and rare metals and glass all of which aren’t infinite resources.
Two decades from now we will still be struggling with a climate crisis and these “solutions” aren’t solutions
It’s worth noting that this is not being done for environmental reasons (more half of all coal pollution comes from China), but for strategic reasons as China has limited access to oil near it’s borders.
I mean, that’s a pretty good reason. I’m not too concerned why they do a good thing, as long as it’s done.
Electric cars aren’t a “good thing” though.
You might get up votes if you accompanied a controversial opinion with a reasoned argument. However, making only broad, unsubstantiated statements is a waste of bandwidth and everyone’s time.
You might get up votes if you accompanied a controversial opinion with a reasoned argument.
Ultimately I agree that they should include the argument, but adding a reasoned argument has very little affect on the use of the vote buttons as “agree/disagree.”
They’re a “better than ICE cars” thing. I’ll take whatever improvements I can get
China is also the world leader in sustainable public transportation solutions
I assume you mean that they’re not a positive for our environment, even so they’re much better for our local environment, which is still one better than petrol and diesel cars imo.
Why not? This has been researched many times, and the results are consistently that it is a good thing already, and getting better, in regards to overall co2 produced
They’re also far more efficient than fuel cell too
An EV running on a coal fired grid still has less emissions that a prius. Facts dont care about your feelings.
Could you please run us through your maths? I’m legit curious.
An ICE is only, at most, 35% efficient. In contrast to lithium batteries and electric motors, which is more like 90% efficient. Electricity produced from the dirtiest coal plants that exist, used in an EV, is more efficient and, thus, more environmentally conscious, than burning gasoline in an ICE.
Coal power plant efficiency is less than 40%. You’d also not get 90% of the outlet on the wheels. There is also a lot of loss on the grid, but there is also on the production of fuel. The two pollute almost the same.
Burning coal however is a lot worse for the air quality.
What about the billions of cells that must be produced and replaced as the scale grown unto millions and millions of cars? And all the mining of rare earth elements it requires?
I don’t know if their statement is universally true, but the EPA’s fuel economy / total emissions calculator seems to show it for what I’ve put in. You can put in a Prius or random EV and see how they compare.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth1
A Prius will definitely pollute less than the typical SUV electric cars on a coal grid.
Cause:
- Efficiency of coal power plant and all losses are as bad as ICE cars. The EVs do thermal->mechanical->electrical->grid->battery->wheels and if you count them all up, is not better than an EV
- Prius is designed for low drag unlike an SUV
- Prius had regenerative braking like an EV
But just the numbers:
- Prius is rated at 94g/kg
- Coal 950g/kwh
- Volvo c40 0.2kwh/km or 190g/km even without losses
I took Volvo cause they published a report with a good compare ev and ICE https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/market-assets/intl/applications/dotcom/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf
Even with the current EU energy mix, it takes 77’000 km to be better than ICE, so arguably better. On coal electricity, they are worse. And this is comparing equally sized cars, a Prius will do better.
Is it worth mentioning? Why?
Just wanted to add some perspective. There’s a narrative lately that China is a champion of the green movement, which is absurd
It’s no less absurd than the opposite narrative, that China is some kind of climate villain.
The reality is China is on the right track, but not there yet. I’m somewhat optimistic.
Car engines are immensely inefficient and car charging is a load that’s easy to load-balance for renewables (dynamic pricing see: Tesla)
Yup! EVs and renewables are broadly good things. Just wanted to give some added perspective :)
Now do coal
Paywalled.
Also worth mentioning that it’s not just cars, but public transit and city planning.
Where are the batteries coming from?
Maybe it’s crazy idea but… China?
No need to be a smartass, I’m genuinely curious if they are importing batteries from somewhere else
And if China, where are the mines so I can check out the environmental destruction on satellite imagery
I mean it’s pretty common knowledge that China is the biggest rare earth metals producer in the world. It’s also well known that the batteries they produces are pretty bad for environment. And it’s also known that Chinese EVs are still better for climate change than oil. It’s all been covered many many times. Are you following any news?
The batteries are also recyclable, which should make the equation even simpler.
I’m genuinely curious
No you’re not. Nobody says that unless they’re trolling.
But at what cost?
