“I’m fine with discussing veganism as long as the vegans stop making objectively true but uncomfortable points.”
The first point is obviously subjective (and your interpretation) but the other two are facts. Animals need to die for you to be able to eat them and somebody intentionally killed them in order to sell them to you for consumption. Calling this murder is a bit polemic but not factually wrong as it’s an intentional and pre-mediated killing - the thing we call “murder”. And yeah, if everyone stopped eating meat, climate change would slow down because fewer resources would be spent on breeding and raising cattle. It’s a scientifically proven fact and also kind of a no-brainer. You don’t think people will stop eating meat but that doesn’t make the point any less factual.
I do eat meat, by the way. I just don’t deny uncomfortable facts and don’t get angry at people stating them. This is exactly what I meant when I said your guilt is your own. You know these facts are true but you don’t want to confront that. This makes you uncomfortable to the point that you lash out at vegans who you perceive as guilt-tripping while they’re just stating facts.
Just because a point is factual does not make it worth discussing or mentioning in an interesting convo. If everyone stopped driving a 1-2 ton personal metal brick on wheels and started biking climate change would also be slowed, or if half the population died right now it would also be slowed, or if the sun exploded. Who cares? These are not realistic solutions to that problem so what is the reason you would bring it up when discussing diets? Is the reason to inform? It just seems to me like someone mentioning “murder” and “if no one ate meat” while discussing diets is not looking for useful conversation.
You mention the difference is in believing it to be possible. I believe that meat harvested from slaughtered animals will someday be a rarity, but not soon enough to be (part of) a real solution for climate change. Lab meat is just now hitting consumer stores, and climate crisis is on our doorstep.
It sounds like you already have counterarguments to those two points. Why not make them in a discussion instead of refusing it outright based on what you perceive as weak arguments? I’m not vegan and won’t argue about the merits of these arguments, my only point is that it’s unwise to refuse a discussion unless your opponent adheres to arbitrary rules you postulate.
As to your second paragraph, I think you’re referring to a different commenter. I don’t believe I made a point about believing something to be possible. Please do correct me if I’m missing something, though. I do agree with you here. Lab meat won’t save the climate. But, to be fair, that wasn’t your original point which talked about forgoing meat consumption altogether. Which I don’t believe will happen since we can’t even reduce car sales but it could definitely be part of a solution for climate change.
Sorry mate, vegans can’t change the reality of what it means to eat a dead animal. I’m sorry it hurts your feelings that you’re a carnist, maybe if you want to stop being guilt tripped by reality you could stop being a carnist
I think a lot of the guilt you’re feeling is your own and not created by these alleged vegans. I know a lot of vegans and also vegetarians and they’re almost apologetic about their dietary choices. Of course, both your and my experiences are anecdotal but I find it hard to believe a vegan actually actively tried to guilt you into anything. Which isn’t to say their mere presence doesn’t cause you to feel guilty about your eating habits.
*writes blog post stating its not people who identify as meat eaters who are the fundamentalists
Post content: “You’re fucking lying!! Vegans are 100% the problem. Theyre fucking guilting me, no better than an anti abortionist piece of shit cunt fucking see it ALL THE TIME!!!”
I’ve been on reddit for more than a decade and that’s not my experience. Maybe you’re particularly sensitive in regards to dietary choices and the opinions surrounding them? Or maybe those posts you’re referring to are not actually meant to guilt-trip you?
Saying you don’t care about something others care a great deal about obviously is going to offend those people (see also: Religion). Being offended isn’t the same as guilt-tripping, though, and it’s a far cry from being “as obnoxious as people shouting that abortions are evil” or “being a cunt”. These comparisons alone suggest it’s a little bit of a deal to you. That, of course, is just my interpretation reading two of your comments and is in no way meant to be a judgment of your character or person, I’m just trying to convey what comes across on my end.
The fact that you’re seeing “a solid link between” veganism and anti-abortionists makes me not want to continue the discussion, sorry.
I believe my point was rather clear, though. You claimed that “literally every vegan” you met online is “extremely preachy”. I do not believe that and told you about my experience on which I’m basing my objection. This is generally known as a discussion and its point is to share opinions and generally interact with other people. The fact that you’re interpreting this as an attack shows that this is a very emotional subject for you. Another reason, I don’t think this discussion is worth continuing.
I do believe you don’t think this is an emotional subject for you, I really do.
But then I read your comments and get a different impression. This is not making assumptions, it is looking at facts and calling them out. Maybe you could take a step back and honestly think about the emotions you experience while you’re writing these comments. Or stay mad about people giving you feedback on the way you behave. Whatever tickles your fancy.
Non preachy vegans don’t tell they are vegan unless the conversation goes that way.
Why would you? I don’t care what you eat and I know you don’t care what I eat.
Preachy vegans also annoy other non preachy vegans. And the one example of preachy I knew was not a good vegan.
Look I’m fine with anyone who doesn’t force their dietary choices onto others. I hate vegans who try to force carnists to conform to their lifestyle, and I also hate carnists who try to force cows to conform to their lifestyle.
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uhh… you do realize that the non-preachy ones just won’t talk about it? How would you even know they’re vegan?
deleted by creator
“I’m fine with discussing veganism as long as the vegans stop making objectively true but uncomfortable points.”
The first point is obviously subjective (and your interpretation) but the other two are facts. Animals need to die for you to be able to eat them and somebody intentionally killed them in order to sell them to you for consumption. Calling this murder is a bit polemic but not factually wrong as it’s an intentional and pre-mediated killing - the thing we call “murder”. And yeah, if everyone stopped eating meat, climate change would slow down because fewer resources would be spent on breeding and raising cattle. It’s a scientifically proven fact and also kind of a no-brainer. You don’t think people will stop eating meat but that doesn’t make the point any less factual.
I do eat meat, by the way. I just don’t deny uncomfortable facts and don’t get angry at people stating them. This is exactly what I meant when I said your guilt is your own. You know these facts are true but you don’t want to confront that. This makes you uncomfortable to the point that you lash out at vegans who you perceive as guilt-tripping while they’re just stating facts.
Just because a point is factual does not make it worth discussing or mentioning in an interesting convo. If everyone stopped driving a 1-2 ton personal metal brick on wheels and started biking climate change would also be slowed, or if half the population died right now it would also be slowed, or if the sun exploded. Who cares? These are not realistic solutions to that problem so what is the reason you would bring it up when discussing diets? Is the reason to inform? It just seems to me like someone mentioning “murder” and “if no one ate meat” while discussing diets is not looking for useful conversation.
You mention the difference is in believing it to be possible. I believe that meat harvested from slaughtered animals will someday be a rarity, but not soon enough to be (part of) a real solution for climate change. Lab meat is just now hitting consumer stores, and climate crisis is on our doorstep.
It sounds like you already have counterarguments to those two points. Why not make them in a discussion instead of refusing it outright based on what you perceive as weak arguments? I’m not vegan and won’t argue about the merits of these arguments, my only point is that it’s unwise to refuse a discussion unless your opponent adheres to arbitrary rules you postulate.
As to your second paragraph, I think you’re referring to a different commenter. I don’t believe I made a point about believing something to be possible. Please do correct me if I’m missing something, though. I do agree with you here. Lab meat won’t save the climate. But, to be fair, that wasn’t your original point which talked about forgoing meat consumption altogether. Which I don’t believe will happen since we can’t even reduce car sales but it could definitely be part of a solution for climate change.
Sorry mate, vegans can’t change the reality of what it means to eat a dead animal. I’m sorry it hurts your feelings that you’re a carnist, maybe if you want to stop being guilt tripped by reality you could stop being a carnist
deleted by creator
I think a lot of the guilt you’re feeling is your own and not created by these alleged vegans. I know a lot of vegans and also vegetarians and they’re almost apologetic about their dietary choices. Of course, both your and my experiences are anecdotal but I find it hard to believe a vegan actually actively tried to guilt you into anything. Which isn’t to say their mere presence doesn’t cause you to feel guilty about your eating habits.
deleted by creator
*writes blog post stating its not people who identify as meat eaters who are the fundamentalists
Post content: “You’re fucking lying!! Vegans are 100% the problem. Theyre fucking guilting me, no better than an anti abortionist piece of shit cunt fucking see it ALL THE TIME!!!”
deleted by creator
Lol… holy shit dude. Super stable post. Don’t forget to check under your bed at night for preachy vegans who are coming to get you.
deleted by creator
I’ve been on reddit for more than a decade and that’s not my experience. Maybe you’re particularly sensitive in regards to dietary choices and the opinions surrounding them? Or maybe those posts you’re referring to are not actually meant to guilt-trip you?
Saying you don’t care about something others care a great deal about obviously is going to offend those people (see also: Religion). Being offended isn’t the same as guilt-tripping, though, and it’s a far cry from being “as obnoxious as people shouting that abortions are evil” or “being a cunt”. These comparisons alone suggest it’s a little bit of a deal to you. That, of course, is just my interpretation reading two of your comments and is in no way meant to be a judgment of your character or person, I’m just trying to convey what comes across on my end.
deleted by creator
The fact that you’re seeing “a solid link between” veganism and anti-abortionists makes me not want to continue the discussion, sorry.
I believe my point was rather clear, though. You claimed that “literally every vegan” you met online is “extremely preachy”. I do not believe that and told you about my experience on which I’m basing my objection. This is generally known as a discussion and its point is to share opinions and generally interact with other people. The fact that you’re interpreting this as an attack shows that this is a very emotional subject for you. Another reason, I don’t think this discussion is worth continuing.
deleted by creator
I do believe you don’t think this is an emotional subject for you, I really do.
But then I read your comments and get a different impression. This is not making assumptions, it is looking at facts and calling them out. Maybe you could take a step back and honestly think about the emotions you experience while you’re writing these comments. Or stay mad about people giving you feedback on the way you behave. Whatever tickles your fancy.
Yeah! Everyone has the right to eat whatever they want! I love eating carnists and nobody has the right to guilt trip me for it
Non preachy vegans don’t tell they are vegan unless the conversation goes that way. Why would you? I don’t care what you eat and I know you don’t care what I eat.
Preachy vegans also annoy other non preachy vegans. And the one example of preachy I knew was not a good vegan.
daddy chill
Look I’m fine with anyone who doesn’t force their dietary choices onto others. I hate vegans who try to force carnists to conform to their lifestyle, and I also hate carnists who try to force cows to conform to their lifestyle.