The share of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents who believe that President Joe Biden’s 2020 election win was not legitimate has ticked back up, according to a new CNN poll fielded throughout July. All told, 69% of Republicans and Republican-leaners say Biden’s win was not legitimate, up from 63% earlier this year and through last fall, even as there is no evidence of election fraud that would have altered the outcome of the contest.
now do the % of repubs who think the earth is 5,000 years old. or the % that think russia is our ally.
The Republican Party has become a doctrinaire anti-American organization; wholly subservient to the international fascist movement.
Why would any loyal American patriot be a member of it?
Great response
Then it’s urgent that you guys find a way so that there’d be more than two big parties, or the D are going to rot in the same direction as the R have already.
There’s no reason that has to be true, but a multi-party system enabled by ranked-choice or approval voting would be better
You’d need radical changes to the constitution. Good luck getting any amendments through today.
Actually there is. I’m just really lazy to write long answers for a change, and after searching for my glasses in panic for 2.5 hours even more.
Ripoblus and Dimoks (TIE Fighter is my favorite game) are both eclectic parties, so actual ideology doesn’t matter much. They flatten many dimensions in such a way that people having not much in common with each other - say, those for legalizing marijuana and those for student debt subsidies, - ally with each other, and their enemies for prohibition and no subsidies respectively do the same.
There is no particular common ideological identity which would make an eclectic party not follow suit of its only competitor turning into brownshirt flatearther Christian Jihadists or whatever, and it only has to be marginally better.
EDIT: I like ranked choice too, only I want to have an option of downvote there. Other than that - sortition is cool. The former solves the problem of only the two biggest parties surviving, the latter solves the problem of the majority always trumping the minority. They are not compatible, so it’s something to decide for every separate problem.
I’m starting to put together citations to go with this list if anyone wants to contribute.
Bold of you to assume they’re capable of reading this.
It’s scary when there’s an entire echochamber yelling nonsense at the top of their lungs. How is America supposed to recover with this incessant Fox News and even worse OAN propaganda?
The obvious solution is to outlaw intentionally lying in the guise of a news show. Make FOX etc., have to broadcast a banner that says, “THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY,” as they have argued in court.
In addition to this, retractions and corrections need to be more prominent. No more screaming falsehoods for hours and days and then quietly issuing a retraction as a scroll during the low viewership time block.
Make FOX etc., have to broadcast a banner that says, “THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY,"
I mean, that might work, but what we’d get is "THIS IS NOT FACTUAL NEWS THIS IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY 😉 " and there’d be no difference to what we have now.
True, some people still believe the Weekly World News is real and it has such a disclaimer. I would like people who believe Fox News to be considered crackpots of a similar caliber. I think such a disclaimer might accomplish this. At very least it would save us from having to refute their fire-hose of bullshit, as it says right on the screen that it’s bullshit.
Either that or it’ll force them to improve their journalistic standards to get rid of the disclaimer. Either way, a win.
Fox would own the fuck out of that.
The left makes us put this banner on here! We know you’re smart people that can make your own choices about what is and is not “entertainment”! Now, for something I don’t find at all entertaining, Biden once again oversteps his authority and …
The left makes us put this banner on here!
That argument might make sense if it wasn’t Fox themselves arguing in court that they aren’t presenting news and can therefore lie without consequence because shows like Tucker Carlson are entertainment.
I understand completely that it makes no sense that their viewers are this stupid, but it also doesn’t change the fact that they are.
Align them with the crazies. If you hold these believes then you think the earth is flat. Full stop.
If someone mentions this shit then they obviously believe in hollow earth, lizard people shit. Laugh at them, call them out as laughable and do not treat them as a serious person. They are talking about nonsense and they are children. Treat them as such.
Republican voters are a different breed. Even with enough evidence to prove Russia was interfering with the 2016 election, Democrats still mostly accepted the win. With even less evidence of any fraud in the 2020 election, the majority of Republicans deny Biden’s legitimacy.
With ZERO evidence. Not “Even less”. There was ZERO evidence of fraud by the Biden campaign and democrats.
And lots of evidence of Republicans committing fraud in 2020, and still they lost.
They take their cues from their politicians who are all cowards. Every Republican politician with even the most basic critical thinking skills understands that Trump did not win and that Trump intentionally broke the law with classified documents.
Instead of acknowledging those facts, they instead are literally willing to destroy Americans’ faith in fair elections and the basic rule of law by spewing lies in an effort to prostrate themselves to Donald Trump and his supporters. They have no fundamental principles anymore. They are literally willing to burn the country down to win.
Can we call them neo-confederates already?
Pre Antebelum Republicans.
Yeah I’m telling you. There is an older crowd that it doesn’t matter what you say to them, they run on hate and they’ve been given a lot of fuel.
So, 69% of Republicans are traitors to the Republic. That’s what I’m hearing.
How many of those 70% knows it’s a lie, but went along with it. There’s a reason why I support rejecting Republicans and I would go as far as not funding red states along with boycotting businesses residing from those states.
Always has been.
Does no one remember 2016-2020? The whole time people said Trumps win was a sham.
Are those people traitors too?
I’m not saying Biden’s win was bullshit, but I swear no one can remember past 30 minutes ago
It’s not the same. Most people calling the 2016 election a sham will admit that Trump did technically win by the rules as written, but also think that those rules are bullshit because they allowed a multi-million person majority to be shut out in favor of a malevolent moron. The people saying Biden lost are saying he literally cheated and that there’s a conspiracy of thousands of government employees collaborating to break the rules and subvert the will of the people; that the multi-million majority literally doesn’t exist. This is just as disingenuous as comparing the top secret documents that Trump hid to the ones that Biden and Pence handed over immediately on request.
did ANY of those people try a coup?
Yes.
Remember when liberals took over parts of a city and created CHAZ/CHOP?
Oh no people in a park. Not at all the same as trying to overturn an election.
Also I remember when trumpets stormed the wa govs mansion.
People in a park?
Way to really under sell the destruction that happened there, but I guess that’s exactly what the democrats do.
They took over a large portion of a city, and people got shot. They wouldn’t let police in and let people die. They destroyed the buildings in there and innocent people had to leave who didn’t want to be involved.
There was deaths, arson and destruction
But sure. People in a park.
large portion? dude it was a park. and not even the whole park. ohh scary.
They took over a portion of the city. 6 city blocks.
Did you really gaslight yourself to believe it was just a park?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53224445
This shows how large it was and how just people got shot
Some of ‘em did burn cars and buildings, I assume they would’ve fallen in line for storming Capitol Hill too.
Never underestimate those who will get violent because their preferred candidate didn’t win.
One side did and one side you’re just saying that the could have.
What’s the difference between those two?
On another note: What a username
👏 Golf Clap 👏
Never said there wasn’t a difference lol, nor would I.
But you did and now you’re straight up lying.
…uh, okay?
blame the left all you want it was trump and his supporters who attempted a coup.
Still no evidence Trump supported a coup
Also a coup that just followed the red velvet rope around? Yeah scary shit
And coming dangerously close to our elected officials while chanting they wanted to hang people with the gallows they built outside. And remember people died there. And there’s tons of evidence trump led it, why do you think he’s getting charged for it.
No one was in the building
An angry person smashing the window of a Starbucks is not a fucking threat to the Republic, dude.
The small insignificant difference between the two is that those people didn’t try to break into congress and kill the people who disagreed
To be fair though, a few Dem supporters do scream quite a bit about how much they’d love to kill all conservatives. There were quite a few of those crazies demanding his head during the post-election drama too.
Not saying that Dem voters did actually do that, but I wouldn’t put it past some of ‘em either.
A few anti-Republican individuals (not necessarily even Democrats) saying some shit is nothing compared to leading members of the Republican party calling for violence. The shit they say is literally the position of the party itself.
Well, that 70% can’t be taken seriously as people then.
No, but remember, those 70% will likely vote for the assbag, no matter how the legal matters fall out.
Another four year term from Trump would be absolutely disastrous. After being sworn in, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if, instead of making a speech, he simply took a copy of the Constitution and just tore it up.
I am terrified of that happening
Luckily the other 30% won’t vote for him again, meaning he’ll never win.
There might not be very many smart Republican voters, but there are just enough to ensure that Trump has no chance.
Everyone thinking he had no chance of winning is exactly how he won in 2016.
Don’t worry I’m sure the next vote will also be fortified to get the result you want, that’s pure democracy right there
As a conservative, this is mind boggling to me. In my head I think it’s just a far right crazy conspiracy theory, but between this and the huge amount of support trump gets, I’m just baffled. I’m on the west coast, and none of my friends or family still support Trump or are election deniers.
Maybe the mid west republicans are just 100% trumpers? It’s wild.
Maybe the mid west republicans are just 100% trumpers? It’s wild.
MAGA is basically like a religion out here. They avoid any information that contradicts their belief system and gravitate towards media that reaffirms it. The constant drumbeat of whataboutism coming from trump, fox news, AM radio, etc really has poisoned their brains. Support of trump, embrace of his lies, and hatred of his “enemies”, has become their entire identity.
Back when Trump was President, a friend of mine (who’s a Trump supporter) was arguing with me about whether or not Trump said something.
I did what I always did and checked Google. I quickly found a video of Trump saying the thing and sent it to my friend. He replied that it was fake news.
My friend wasn’t claiming that the video was actually faked or taken out of context. Instead, he was saying that it was fake news because it was hosted on CNN’s servers. He didn’t care what the content was, just whether it was on a right wing outlet’s server or not.
They avoid any information that contradicts their belief system and gravitate towards media that reaffirms it.
Isn’t that the same with twitter, reddit, CNN MSNBC? It’s a more broad media problem. When was the last time most people watched or read any media that directly conflicted with their beliefs?
I watch and read fantasy all the time, but I require it to be entertaining.
In light of seeing your fellow conservatives move farther right (and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right), on what grounds do you still identify as conservative? What does being a conservative mean to you?
(and thus, kinda push the definition of the body of conservative beliefs farther right)
I don’t really agree with this. The republican party shifting doesn’t mean the ideals of conservative ideology changes.
On the other side of the coin, just because democrats are starting to become more socialist, does that mean that liberal ideologies are changing?
I’m still a conservative because I believe in tradition, I believe in small government and a country that abides by the constitution is the best way to govern. I believe in the free market and put more emphasis on a states individuality rather than having a large federal government.
The “other side of the coin” in this instance is a fiction. The Democratic Party is in no meaningful sense of the word becoming “socialist”.
The Democratic Party is in no meaningful sense of the word becoming “socialist”.
They have self proclaimed socialists in office, and I have a self proclaimed communist on my city council.
You’re saying that socialists in this country are fiction because they don’t know about it? I’m confused your stance.
They’re saying that, as a party, it’s absurd to think the democratic party is becoming more socialist. For decades now, it has been a big tent party of not-crazy and stupid assholes. If anything, it moved startlingly rightwards for years as it absorbed more and more not-crazy and stupid assholes from the other side. Every now and then, there is a punctuated moment where single elements of single policies might represent a brief skip leftwards and here and there you have examples of individual members claiming to be socialist, communist, fucking whatever. But it’s foolish to think that’s representative of the party as a whole.
As a non-american, the idea that the Democrats are becoming more socialist is hilarious. At best, they’re getting closer to the centre (from the right). Lemme know when they start proposing an end to health profiteering and stronger union protections :P
This is not a hostile comment, hats off to you for being able to talk openly about your ideas and hear differening opinions 🎩
Democracies around the world really need more of that.
And socialist countries are far right to communist countries, that’s why we don’t compare our political parties internationally.
There are more socialists currently representing people from the democratic party than ever before, and the party is moving more socialist, those are facts. Are you arguing against that?
I think many are simply arguing against your unconventional use of the term “socialist” to describe politicians who are definitely not socialist.
Well it seems that they have a problem with the democratic party incorrectly using the term socialist. They have been for awhile, they call scandinavian countries socialist when they’re not at all. If some democrats claim they’re socialists, and run on a socialist platform, I’ll call them socialist.
I suspect conservative people like yourself no longer identifying as Republican may be a factor.
I have a couple former republican friends who are still very conservative, but aren’t trumpers and voted libertarian or independent last election.
They do still have a bit of distrust around Jan 6th and criminal allegations because, well, they avoid looking into them deeper, so don’t know who to trust. But they’re not foaming at the mouth.
It’s not just a mid-west thing. I’m in the PNW and I’ve yet to meet a Never Trumper republican.
Yup,
Strangest thing to me is that I know quite a few Asians that immigrated here that are super Trumpers. I just can’t even grasp how.
Also, interestingly enough, I also happen to work in a very right leaning field, and the majority of the republicans here have been very quiet since the Jan 6 incident. There was only one who was pretty outspoken about it, and he quit recently.
Just based on Queens, NY, I think the republicans in NYC capitalized on some of the things Democrats “beat around the bush” or avoided talking about. The Asian American population in NY is very anti-crime, and the dems perceived inaction on Anti-Asian Hate created an opening some I think local republicans capitalized on. Even the current mayor is a former cop.
Now, how they got to be die-hard Trumpers is not something I understand. He did, after all, cause Asian Americans a-lot of grief with his whole “China Virus” BS during the pandemic…
Asians tend to be extremely conservative, particularly Chinese immigrants. They grew up in an authoritarian world, and view the progressive policies of the West as antithetical to their own. They don’t care if Trump is a racist, or blames them for the Kung Flu, because he represents their views on what a government should be.
Might be the same reason why Mexicans vote for Republicans as well. As a Mexican I’ve observed that there’s plenty of racism and misogyny still going about, especially among the religious and ignorant crowd.
Latinos subscribe heavily to the machismo personality = good, and that any threat against it is a threat to their existence. They are raised religious with heavy incentive on strong family structures, something that conservatives use as a weapon to curry favor.
Yep, I remember seeing my ex brother in law seem upset for half a second at his baby gender reveil party when they popped a balloon and it was pink. The wife noticed and quickly unscrolled her blue parchment saying it was a lie and it was actually a boy. He wasn’t a bad dude but there was definitely machismo there.
They cross the rope bridge going over the Rio Grande and then cut the rope once they’re across. The amount of hate I’ve seen Mexican immigrants direct at Mexicans trying to immigrate is mind blowing. So it’s no wonder that they flock to the republican party.
Yep, they’re still flying Trump flags and hanging Trump signs in the areas of Oregon outside the larger cities.
Most midwest Republicans are actually populists, and populism is step one on the track to fascism. They have been used and abused by large corporations killing off local economies and greater macroeconomic forces which have determined that their labor is no longer worth a living wage. It’s quite sad actually, but at this point the damage has been done. There’s nothing left for reasonable people to do but get out.
Maybe now. The Republicans in my family left the party after 2016. Granted, they’re still on my shit list for voting against LGBT stuff but at least they’ve recognized the error of their ways.
the conservative party is gone. What’s left is a theocratic loony bid. Anyone voting for that shit is completely out of the loop or doesn’t care about the negative long term consequences to their continued science and data denial and constant conspiracy theory horseshit.
Agreed, my only hope is that Trump will absolutely fall so hard that there is no way people can support him still (at this point, it may take his death, but even then, what conspiracies would come from that?), and the ‘right’ sees a series of defeats that they are forced to re-brand, become more liberal on social issues and actually try to be the conservative party of fiscal responsibility.
I am pretty liberal, but I have a-lot of family members who are republican and live in the midwest and they feel like they’re in the same boat as you.
I do have to wonder where he gets all his support.
He gets his support from the belts. Bible Belt and Rust Belt.
The Bible Belt I can believe, though I am not sure about the Rust Belt. It may have been true in 2016, but I think the 2020 election paints a different picture.
When I think of the Rust Belt, I think of places like Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. Of those cities, it seems only Missouri is hardcore republican (despite St. Louis’s and Kansas City’s best efforts). Michigan seems to have swung pretty left (though there are definitely still red areas), Pennsylvania voted blue and Wisconsin is on the verge of undoing a-lot of republican gerrymandering. Ohio looks like a red-leaning mixed bag, but it doesn’t strike me as a republican bastion.
Granted, most of these are major battleground states with both parties in almost equal numbers, but their conservative populations don’t seem to be anymore Trump-oriented than other states.
I live in NY as does my father. He was a die hard Trump supporter until a few months ago when he switched to DeSantis - though he might have switched back to Trump. I try not to talk politics with him.
As recently as last year, he was telling me that the Republicans were going to impeach and remove Biden and Kamala and install Trump as President again. I pointed out that the House could definitely impeach, but removal would take two thirds of the Senate - a number the Republicans couldn’t possibly reach. (This was before the midterms.) My father responded that the Democrats would vote along with the Republicans.
Yes, my father honestly believed that the Democrats would decide to ditch a Democratic President and Vice President so that Trump could come back to power. He was willing to make a bet that this would happen. I didn’t take the bet only because I knew he’d either deny ever making the bet or would try to gaslight me what the bet actually was about.
Remember the 2000 election? That was a close one. One county in one state with a 500 vote difference. 2020 were 5 states with 10k votes in Arizona to 180k votes in Pennsylvania to Biden. If they pulled 13k votes for out of Trump’s ass for AZ and GA he would of still would of lost the election. They key to the White House is the rust belt. Republicans are too dumb to understand this.
500 votes in a state that was governed by the winners brother, no less.
Democrats have good reason to be suspect about 2000. Republicans are a bunch of clowns.
Yes my point is that 2000 is a valid reason to be suspicious. But you don’t see Gore kicking the results back to Florida and have them overturn the election results with fake electors. That’s fraud.
This doesn’t mean much when large swaths of them believe the earth is flat, the moon landing was faked, slavery helped black people, etc. Asking them their opinions on reality is like asking an amoeba how it feels about NFTs. The levels of insane & stupid coming from these people just means their thoughts & opinions are irrelevant.
They may be insane, but they’re insane AND active voters. They’re also heavily armed.
While their thoughts and opinions are irrelevant their votes are absolutely relevant. Their susceptibility to basic, low-effort manipulation can unfortunately affect us all.
It’s really just insane many Republicans believe this lie still. Even if Trump goes to jail there will still be many Republicans thinking this
Republicans just projecting their own “the ends always justify the means” mindset onto their enemies.
They just refuse to understand that they’re the ones willing to sacrifice any and all values in the name of pyrrhic victory, and that not everyone is as morally bankrupt as them.
A lack of empathy will do that.
This is how/why they do things, so it must also be the same for everyone else.
Same reason they think everything is “virtue signaling.”
These people are just entitled babies. They know Trump didn’t win, but it feels good feelings to pretend that he did so back to the social media that reinforces that.
We need to stop caring about their delusional indulgence in non-reality and start getting the country back on track. Never vote for a single Republican again. I don’t care if you’re a moderate even - there is no safe Republican candidate for a long while, if ever.
THEY KNOW TRUMP LOST
It’s charitable to call them babies. They’re liars.
How do they want to change elections? Are they asking for more election security? NO. They’re calling to raise the voting age to 25.
They know they can’t win a fair election. They don’t want a fair election. They will throw out Democracy for power. They won’t ever admit it, so they lie, and they recognize their in-group when they see other liars.
For Millennial’s it’s wild to have had our parents tell us “TV will rot your brain” and “don’t just trust anything you see online” to them now where cable news has turned their brains to goo and anything posted by some guy in a truck wearing sun glasses on Facebook Reels must be reality.
Lesson learned always block your parents router of alt right content and TV ahead of time including on the Roku
Sounds like censorship to me
