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The way I see it, all of us who migrated here won. Enshitification is eventually going to kill reddit, the only question is when. I’ll grab some popcorn when it happens, but for now won’t worry about it and just enjoy my time here on Lemmy.
Yeah, I agree with this suspiciously named man. Whether it happens sooner or later, Reddit’s death is on the horizon, as it will keep making the wrong choices and so steadily lose those communities and content that built it in the first place.
Reddit won’t actually die, it’ll just be a hollow shell of what it once was.
To illustrate my point, Digg still exists.
Have you been to digg recently? It’s a buzzfeed clone. Just because the brand is still around doesn’t mean it’s the same product at all
It’s like if I bought Nike and then killed off all their product lines and only sold high viscosity lithium grease. Yeah Nike would be around, but it would be meaningless beyond that
That’s what Decoy said.
Reddit won’t die, but it will not be what it was.
There’s a big difference between “die” like Facebook where less people are joining and using it, but it still functions as a “keep in touch with your family” site, and “die” like Digg whose community doesn’t exist at all, almost as if it got bought out by another company for the brand name only.
Tell me more about this high viscosity lithium grease
i too would like to hear more about this grease. please continue
I think that’s his point.
I think the point flew over your head.
Gordon Gecko checking in
I agree. I don’t think we’re there yet, but next time the they give people another reason to leave the Lemmy/kbin ecosystem will be even more appealing. Simply the app and dev community here is really exploding.
“I like the way ‘namffuH’ thinks!”
It won’t die. It will just hollow out. Same as Digg. Same as Facebook, Twitter, and every other shitty part of the internet. The power users are what make the internet the magical place it is. Without those people, the sites will still work… but they won’t be as great as they were before their respective turning points. It’s a cycle it seems.
It won’t die. It will just hollow out.
The result is still basically the same IMHO. It’s like saying “it won’t die, it will just turn into a zombie” … sure it’ll still move, but it’s dead inside and rotting on the outside either way, devoid of the life and soul it once had.
It might not even kill it. Facebook is still kicking, after all, for all its enshittification. It’s just… idk, some of us were freed to move on to a more satisfying experience. That’s all. Life continues here, life continues there
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Facebook (the page) is dead in the sense that its parent company changed their name to not be the same as their (once powerhouse) product. Facebook trademark is so unbelievably cursed due to what it became that they’re pretending that it does not exist.
Meta is focusing on Instagram for now. They could’ve launched Threads within Facebook (I think it was at some point) but they choose not to. Instagram is how they reach out to the people.
This means that Facebook was enshittified successfully. It does not serve any purpose now.
I don’t think Reddit has the same choice as they don’t really have means to pivot to something else. It will just cease to be… Or not.
I understand why the didn’t do threads in Facebook incase they need to shut it down. Kinda like how they have Messenger then purchased WhatsApp but never integrated it if they want to shut one down.
Maybe Facebook got so big and their search is so good that people just stopped using Google search for it, but I have a hard time believing that can be responsible for a drop of this magnitude.
I would say you’re probably right. Remember this old gem?
Honestly if all the buttmunches stay there and all the cool people come here, I think that’s the ideal scenario.
facebook’s on the decline, meta’s betting on instagram since that’s what the kids use. facebook is for boomers to looking at family vacation photos and nazi radicalising and is a legacy service at this point.
do you know what a ‘boomer’ is? it’s slang for ‘baby boomer’ and it’s a specific age range of people born at specific times. plenty of people younger than that are on FB every day. just saying, if you didn’t know what ‘boomer’ was, it doesn’t just mean ‘old person’.
Honestly I’m happy with a slow death than a big freaking one. A humongous explosion is not always a good thing lol.
Right? The protest was just the lighter. Now we watch as the fuse burns. Fuck off Gizmodo, Reddit didn’t win shit yet
I doubt it. Only few people left and they’ll just get a bunch of new people in to replace the lost ones. It’s just a little dent in their statistics.
Enshittification will one day kill Lemmy. Somehow.
And we’ll be elsewhere.
Lemmy is open-source software. If the project root starts doing something stupid or gets abandoned, it can just be forked by someone else and it will live on.
That‘s right. Without the protests, i probably would nit have been aware of the fediverse existence
Idk if it will ever go away. Digg is still around.
Shit birds Ran.
I can’t tell if it’s just cognitive bias on my part but I feel like the content and discussion has gotten even worse on Reddit since the protests.
Meanwhile here, I find most engagements thoughtful and written because people want to engage. Sure, a few assholes post stupid shit or try to be mean, but most are just trying to participate in good faith.
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Good thing you reality deniers have no reason to be here then. Byyyeeee!
Geez, you trolls are so pathetic.
That title is a bit misleading. Reddit mods might have stopped protesting, but the news of the implosion was quite significant. The existence of Lemmy is a testament to this. I don’t think their IPO is going to be as strong as they had hoped. That financial impact is quite opposite of the victory they claim to have achieved.
Also, the posts on Reddit and the responses have declined in quality in my opinion.
the post quality sincerely feels reminiscent of when I started using reddit a decade ago, might as well be posting rage comics again. so much vile shit is making it to the front page too.
glad I finally got the kick I needed to jump ship, i’m really enjoying what I’ve seen on lemmy and hexbear
So what you’re saying is spez will be richer than 80% of people instead of 90%
To be richer than 90% of people you need to have a net worth of $90,000 USD.
Damn. I’ve got more than that and I sure as hell don’t feel like a ten percenter.
Worldwide. So you’re competing with people sewing shoes at 1$ per hour.
That’s too high. People are employed for like $4/day basis in some places.
That can’t possibly be true. I’m not saying you’re lying, just… holy shit I though it’d be way more than that. This is for US citizens?
The number was $1,212,000 to be in the 90th percentile in the US in 2017 according to https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p70br-170.pdf
But worldwide, it was indeed about $93,000. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/07/how-much-money-you-need-to-be-in-the-richest-10-percent-worldwide.html
Very interesting. That’s more in line with what I was thinking it would be for the United States. Thanks for looking that up and providing the info.
This is for all people, worldwide. North America is very rich, relatively speaking.
I’ve read this before and continue to remain stunned since the cost of living is so ridiculously high in so many American cities.
On the bright side, people like him are unlikely to be happy with what they have. He’ll spend the rest of his life dreaming about the billions he ‘lost’, rather than being satisfied with the obscene amount of wealth he already has.
They pissed off a lot of their quality submitters, who either moved somewhere else or decided the hell with it, and they’re doing other things now entirely.
When I upped stakes and left, I did indeed up my stakes. I torched all of my posts and comments, which means that, yes, all of my typical reddit bickering is lost to time now. But so is all the specialty knowledge about specific topics I’d put into posts and comments which are now gone from their platform entirely. Outside of the usual cats/porn/vidya/political bickering cycle on reddit, a large portion of what made it valuable to people was (were?) all the niche subs full of knowledgeable people posting information and answering questions about whatever the topic was. The reddit administration didn’t just piss off the power mods, it pissed off all the people contributing to those subs as well.
The existence of Lemmy is a testament to this.
Lemmy has existed before the reddit shitshow.
Possibly we should all occasionally contribute shit posts to Reddit.
I’ve been browsing Reddit logged out and haven’t seen even one thing that made me want to comment since the apps got shut down. It really does seem like the content quality has tanked.
I think I won. I found a place I like more than reddit. Maybe we won even. We all got this place right here now. It’s nice.
Maybe reddit won. Maybe they wanted to get rid of us and succeeded. Could be easier to milk the platform for shareholders after getting rid of anyone who would protest beforehand.
Maybe it doesn’t matter because neither side needs the other anymore. Both sides changed and don’t fit back together anymore.
Certainly declaring a winner in this situation is dumb.
I agree. If Reddit won, the victory was pyrrhic if anything. Their whole plan to end 3rd party app support could have been just a small road bump if they had just done it transparently and planned it with reasonably thought out timelines. They instead chose to do a whole front flip over it and get everyone mad, tanking their brand while trying to make it look like nothing happened.
Anyways, congratulations on your victory. Here’s your prize: ❤
Ex-Apollo/Reddit 10+ years here. I really can’t understand why they didn’t offer API users the ability to pay for the add-free access they were afforded by their apps (if that’s what it was supposed to be about). Did they really think that they could force people to use the dumpster-fire that is the official Reddit app? …at the cost of losing a significant, or at least active, percentage of their user base? That’s insane. I haven’t logged in to my Reddit account since and I no longer visit old.reddit.com. Appreciate going cold turkey isn’t for everyone, but … fuck it. When social media companies stop allowing you to view their content in the way you enjoy, it should tell you how valued you are by them.
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I think Lemmy won when you came here.
I think we won Lemmy.
We lost reddit though, not the current reddit, but the one that was.
I hope we all win. I miss Reddit. There was a more diverse range of communities that matched my interests. My list is subscribed communities here is growing but some are dead.
That will grow over time and many are. I’m finding there is increasing engagement and comments on many posts and this engagement should breed more engagement.
I think all the mobile apps for lemmy becoming available helps a lot too. Even from several weeks ago the experience is way way better.
Also all of the major instabilities I saw at first are getting worked out very fast
I’m seeing the increasing engagement too
I don’t need to win or anything I gave up on Reddit. What’s funny is that I donate to Lemmy and never ever bought Reddit premium.
great comment
Certainly declaring a winner in this situation is dumb.
It’s not dumb. It’s the canary in the coal mine. It’s showing that people don’t actually give a shit and will continually subject themselves to more and more abuse rather than simply moving to a new platform.
And it’s showing this to other corporations who continue to enshittify the internet.
Imo it is dumb that media always frames anything happening like a sports event. This binary win or lose narrative rarely if ever captures the complexity of a situation. It’s the strongest in the US where sensationalism is striving to become an art form due to the two party system. When there are only two competing sites politics can quickly feel like a sports event. And democracy dies to lack of actual discussion and lack of options.
At least personally i have not been on reddit for more than 10 minutes total since the middle of June. I am but one person, but i dont see how they can declare themselves the winners.
They can declare whatever they want. The ex users won’t hear or rebut.
I haven’t been back at all.
Reddit was always going to win that battle. But the fact that Lemmy now has a much larger user base (largely populated by many reddit OGs) is telling. At the very least, the online landscape changed. I for one am happy to be on a new platform away from the old corporate overlords.
Yeah, I don’t mind that the majority stays on Reddit. I miss the old, tighter communities and conversations. When you couldn’t predict the top 2-3 top level comments because it’s not all jokes/memes, all the time.
Lemmy is still young, just needs some time and work to get it’s shit together and then it’ll be great! Honestly, I hope Reddit stays popular so that most people stay there. As long as Lemmy doesn’t turn into another escape for CP/Nazi’s/random shit groups.
Honestly, I hope Reddit stays popular so that most people stay there. As long as Lemmy doesn’t turn into another escape for CP/Nazi’s/random shit groups.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if various extremist groups end up setting up their own lemmy instances. The whole point of the decentralisation is you can’t stop them from doing that. I doubt the big instance will connect with those instances though. We might end up with a sort of alternate mini-fediverse for various groups that don’t get accepted into the main one.
This is also your solution if main instances start getting too popular and you don’t like them anymore. Set up your own instance and disconnect from the rest. The main selling point of lemmy is you always keep some control over the platform.
Yeah the fediverse feels more of a game that runs only on personal servers you join and less of a central server game that everyone joins. Lemmy is more counter strike and Reddit is more world of Warcraft
Dead right, 100% agreed.
In late June early July Reddit was awash with people predicting a digg like doom for reddit. I got sick of commenting that 90% of reddit users wouldn’t understand what was happening and 99% wouldn’t care. Reddit was always going to “win” in that they would carry on, more profitable than before.
I don’t know or care whether the reddit “experience” has diminished in either the short or the long term. I expect it has in some way, but it’s more like a continuation of a long-standing trajectory.
In any case, as you say, the landscape has changed. Back in April lemmy was more or less non-viable to scratch that thread based news-aggregator itch. That’s no longer the case.
To be honest I didn’t really care about the API thing because I used the web interface anyway. But the fact that they had this outrage from users and their answer was “LOL who cares” made me leave.
I’m very similar. I actually just used the official app, but just seeing the way they responded made me leave
I just got tired of being on a site that won’t just ban you for saying Nazis should be punched, they’ll ban you for calling them mean names.
nazi shouldn’t be punch?
In the light of Twitter shitshow and how one person can ruin a platform it makes sense to look into more decentralized services.
They were always going to win. It’s their platform. They can do whatever they want. But… They lost my attention and paid subscription. I now only go to Reddit when I’m looking for something I can’t find elsewhere. It used to be my favorite platform.
Reddit’s main advantage is the historic number of contents and knowledge posted by their users.
It will take decades for this advantage to shift, if even possible, to similar type like Lemmy or other platforms.
This can play out in other ways. Search platforms start indexing open platforms and more links start making reference to these platforms.
Decades? Nah, but years yeah for sure
The reddit protest caused thousands of power users and some of the best content creators to leave the site.
The reddit protest caused lemmy to grow exponentially for weeks on end.
The reddit protest caused well known third party app developers to leave reddit and retool for lemmy.
Next time reddit fucks up, and it will, when everyone is over there circlejerking about “well are there any good reddit alternatives?”
The answer will be “there is now, and it’s called lemmy.” And lemmy will again grow exponentially.
Hardly seems like a win, long term. Sure, reddit beat the remaining mod hold outs. They didn’t beat us.
At the beginning I was going to Reddit on and off. Currently, I just stick to Lemmy. Also “Sync for Lemmy” made me incredibly happy.
But in the short term, spaz will have made a killing by selling the company. And in the long term, the investors will be the ones holding the losses as the site haemorrhage users.
it’s fine. they can just come here
Yes they did win.
If lemmy users are the ones that left, reddit is probably better now than before.
Huh. Funny you should say that. I keep saying I like the Lemmy culture better and don’t want it to be like Reddit.
Username checks out…
Nah, I won. We won. We found better platforms like Lemmy, Mastodon, and KBin.
I’m not going back to reddit, there’s simply no need.
Such a small amount of users on Reddit submit links or comment. The thing that they “won” was splitting a portion of their community of power users who maintain and create the content on their site from the masses who simply consume and doom scroll the main page. I am happy with the type of discussion that is happening on Lemmy, I don’t need a post to have 7000 upvotes or a comment to have 1500 votes and a shit load of coins attached to it to make it valuable or interesting.
I was a 100% lurker there and they lost me too. I had no impact on their content but they still lost another person when my 3rd party app stopped working
Yeah exactly like look at this post with 300+ comments on lemmy, once you get past a threshold it’s just more noise.
I’m a former 140k karma reddit poster and haven’t posted since the event. Will never post there again but will post here for sure.
If Reddit won, why have Lemmy and Kbin’s userbases grown so steeply since June? Why has the quality of Reddit’s contentplummeted terribly? Why is /r/place just one endless ocean of “fuck spez”?
Reddit only “won” in the same way that Florida “won” against illegal immigrants and is now facing a massive workforce shortage in essential industries.
Reddit may not be dead yet, but it’s mortally wounded already. It’s bleeding out and will be dead in every way that matters soon.
Unfortunately, steeply here doesn’t really capture the size disparity between Lemmy and Reddit. Lemmy has 60k active monthly users. Reddit has 450 million active monthly users. We have a looong way to go before we can really compete. But we just have to keep pushing. Now that we exist and have a sustainable userbase, the next time Reddit does something idiotic we’ll be here to attract disgruntled users. Something good that we can be doing is showing up to the threads on Reddit about the terrible things Reddit does and advertising Lemmy to people.
I don’t think a competition is necessary. I’m more than happy if this place is better than reddit was, even if it never becomes that big. It’s the content and the community what makes it good for me, not the ammount of users.
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that Lemmy is getting bugger than Reddit. I just wanted to point out that Reddit is bleeding a lot of users. And judging by how Reddit’s post quality has dropped, it’s bleeding the best ones.
To emphasize this discrepancy, based on these numbers, if one tenth of one percent of reddit’s monthly active users switched to lemmy, that would represent more than 600% growth in the lemmy userbase. So yeah. Sharp growth here isn’t necessarily a sharp decline there.
But if the tiny minority that leaves is the same group that’s willing to spend dozens of hours a week for free keeping the site free of spam and hate and keeping forums on topic, that has a pretty outsized impact on the quality of the site moving forward. So the small number isn’t to say that reddit wasn’t hurt by the exodus. It’s just to say that lemmy growth numbers aren’t a good indicator of that impact.
Stop pushing, the server gonna explode 💀
the thing is we need to hit the critical mass where there’s enough posts and comments that it’s not dead and there’s a reason to come back at least daily. I’d say lemmy just hit that point for me very recently and I imagine that if I still had a reddit account I’d be 50/50. I expect exponential growth from here on out, with more users enabling more people to want to join and that further enhances the system
I’d rather we did not complete, thanks. I don’t want 450 million people running riot posting right wing extremist crap.
We lost like 15k active users (of not even 140k) over the last couple weeks alone. I wouldn’t call that steeply grown…
Again, I’m not comoparing Lemmy to Reddit. I myself am on Kbin.
Same. And those are the combined Lemmy & kbin numbers.
Why are you trying so hard to miss my point? Either that or I really suck at communication.
You are. I literally counter argue your point that Reddit “lost”. It’s not mortally wounded either. A tiny portion moved away to something like the various fediverse platforms, a large portion of that already left again and is likely back on Reddit, if they even fully left in the first place. So please stop the mental gymnastics.
It’s not mental gymnastics, but fine. I won’t beleaguer the point. What about the rest of my comment?
Spez used a monkey paw, reddit’s gonna last forever just getting more and more useless.
They’ve grown considerably, because previously there was almost nothing.
If the posts here are any indication, these users never stopped going to Reddit anyway.
Meanwhile the number of users these platforms have gained is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the (likely) millions of new users that just moved over to their first-party app for further exploitation for data-mining and ads.
Be that as it may, the quality of Reddit’s content has dropped significantly. The people who left were the heart and soul of the platform. And the ones who didn’t leave are still pissed. Bluntly, the site’s gone to shit. It will not recover.
Will it shut down? Probably not, but that’s why I said “in every way that matters”. Digg hasn’t shut down either, even after all these years, but it has become completely irrelevant. Just give Reddit time to bleed out and it will be the same.
Reddit might have won, but i definitely did too. It made me finally leave Reddit and got me here. And who knows, perhaps one day Reddit will drown in its enshittification enough for it to vanish into nothing but the great history of the internet. Then, at last, we will still be here.
Reddit corporate claims victory
LOL, fucking pathetic.
Platforms don’t rise and fall in a single day. Reddit used to be obscure. The fewer people go and make content there and instead just post her, the more Reddit dies through attrition. And as more active users are on Lemmy, the more it grows.
I am eagerly anticipating their article on MySpace.
And to learn whether such articles come about via financial incentives or death threats.
I notice no mention of Lemmy userbase expansion…
Because it doesn’t matter to reddit. They did the math on how many would leave and how much money they’d make pushing everyone else to their app. They came out on top and will be fine without us
That spreadsheet is how they make all their decisions, including things like “should we platform dangerous misinformation during a pandemic?” or “how many domestic terrorists do we allow per reactionary sub?”
When actual morality is cast aside in order to maximise profits, issues like “disappointing users” don’t stand a chance.
But the article has a pretty shallow definition of “won”, meaning “they put an end to the protests”. Given they have complete control over the platform, that was always going to be the most likely outcome.
The cost of putting down that protest is harder to see from the outside though.
Would they have “won” if they lost half their users in the process? Would they have “won” if the protest wiped millions off their value before their IPO? Have they “won” because they added another straw and the camel is still standing?
But ultimately, who cares what Gizmodos take is? They’re a for-profit media company publishing media that looks out for their own interests, which in this case is “it’s futile to try and hurt a company’s profits”, no different to any other neoliberal media empire.
Exactly. Sure, some people left and a few of those migrated here. But as a percentage of overall users of Reddit it just doesn’t matter. Personally, I don’t care. I am happy here. But there seem to be a lot of people who are still angry at their ex, so to speak. That only leads to bitterness, because the ex has moved on and it turned out you never mattered to them.
You’re wrong. Anger doesn’t lead to bitterness. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering
The user base boost means lemmy will very likely be viable next time there’s a major fuck up and people go look for alternatives
If it happens they might start losing speed
That’s how you know its a paid article.
Not really sure what Gizmodo thinks that Reddit “won”. They damaged their reputation, degraded the quality of their site, popularized competition, and embittered a significant portion of their volunteer labor force.
