With the discussion of whether assisted dying should be allowed in Scotland befing brought up again, I was wondering what other people thought of the topic.
Do you think people should be allowed to choose when to end their own life?
What laws need to be put into place to prevent abuses in the system?
How do we account for people changing their mind or mental decline causing people to no longer be able to consent to a procedure they previously requested?
It bothers me that in the U.S., we extend that courtesy to pets who are suffering from terminal issues. But we expect loved ones to hang on and suffer for no real reason other then the vague notion that the imaginary sky man would disapprove.
My grandma passed away 2 months shy of her 101st birthday. I visited her a few weeks before she passed, she was gaunt, skeletal, couldn’t see us and was reacting to hallucination caused by their body slowly shutting down. She didn’t even know my Mom and I were even there, and when we told her her daughter was there to see her, she said “No, I don’t believe it” while staring blanking into the corner of the room. She wasn’t suffering from dementia, it was cancer that came back which was killing her. What reason would we not allow a loved pet to suffer though that, but a blood relative, hell yeah, let them lay and suffer for weeks, months, years.
I don’t have any grand ideas on how to prevent abuse, I just think it’s humane to not let a thinking being suffer needlessly.
It’s the same for the young end of the spectrum, I’ve seen lots of kids and adults who were born with a bad disability to be permanently wheelchair bound unable to care for themselves or even communicate. But “they were breathing on their own when they came out, so we can’t do anything about it now” because sky daddie might be mad
And then ofc the whole stress added onto the parents who will have to primarily care for the child for the rest. Of. Their. Lives.
I think a legitimate concern for that one is what do you define as a disability worth terminating the baby’s life for. Some would likely abuse it for eugenics.
Good investment and R&D for better early pregnancy testing would be a good start, if we can accurately predict disabilities early enough for an abortion it would head off a lot of issues later on
But for post birth disabilities, yea, but it’s hard to even have that conversation because many would just shut the conversation down entirely with “life is life” or some BS like that
Not being able to live without any assistance and no hope of improving seems like a reasonable criteria. In fact, with that criteria they can remove the assistance and let the child (or adults) suffocate and die right now, but they can’t use drugs to ease the suffering and speed up the process or it is ‘murder’.
There are many things we can put in place to mitigate the concerns about eugenics, like requiring two doctor’s to agree that it is appropriate in addition to consent of family/guardians/other legally responsible persons.
None of us could live without any assistance.
With minimal reading comprehension you could have inferred that the assistance in the example was breathing for the person since they would suffocate without the assistance.
Im the hopes of avoiding a similar stupid post, that does not mean I think anyone who need needs a machine should die. That was an example of a situation where doctors can currently let a patient die through ‘inaction’ by removing the assistance that is taking care of vital functions like breathing. Think brain dead people or someone whose cancer is so bad that they refuse care that could keep them alive, but have no option to end the suffering faster.
I Would be in favor of assisted dying being introduced for anyone who need it.
No one should be forced to live against their will.
Also its better to let a person die peacefully than having them die in gruesome ways (jumping in front of a car/train, jumping from a building, hanging themselves with family and loved ones having to see them in this state, etc …
I was in favor of this until I started reading Marta Russel. She lays out the history of using the concept of assisted dying to do things like get rid of people with disabilities, increase profits for hospitals, decrease funding for home nurses, convince people who are no longer productive that they shouldn’t live anymore, etc etc. It seems like a good idea on paper, because bodily autonomy and stuff, but capitalist ghouls coerce people into it.
Anything can be corrupted by capitalist ghouls. I wouldn’t let that fear stop me from doing the right thing. People shouldn’t be forced to suffer, and should be allowed to choose when to die.
May I ask were you live? I live in Sweden and would personally trust our medical system not to abuse such tools but depending on were you are I do understand that you might be worried.
Anyways I don’t really see it as a problem with assisted death but with the system using it
In Oregon, you have to be able to administer it to yourself. It’s not something someone else does to you.
Some people get it as an insurance policy of sorts. So it’s an option during end of life care, but not necessarily one they take.
I am curious about what happens with the med if left unused. Like, do people tuck it away like spare antibiotic eye drops?
It’s done with a medico in attendance, who then takes the apparatus and spare media on leaving.
Guess everyone should suffer because there is the possibility of abuse that we already know about and could take steps to avoid.
With a waiting period, I think assisted dying should be available for adults in general, regardless of terminal illness.
No one opted in, and at least in my society where we are belligerently unwilling to tangibly help one another, where most are expected to endlessly produce regardless of our wellbeing under threat of homelessness and gruesome death by exposure, and where struggling people are often condemned for being lazy or making bad decisions when they’re already down, it would be a small, efficient mercy to allow a quiet, painless opt out.
We could even have the capitalists run it and charge a small fee since they need to turn everything into a for profit endeavor. Everyone wins.
I was with you until the capitalists part ad that would incentivize abuse and overuse for malicious reasons.
They’re the biggest reason assisted dying would be so popular, regardless of how it was run.
This is their world, and they must benefit to permit something merciful for the people to happen. Their malice is already everywhere, for this to even have a chance of ever existing, they must get their cut, or they wouldn’t let their middle managers in governments pass it. Just the reality.
I was just suggesting a potential offering to the rule makers to make it achievable. They have no kindness or mercy to appeal to, only money.
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I’m strongly in favour of assisted dying. If an animal is too ill and can’t be cured, we do the humane thing and put them down so they don’t suffer. Yet if a human who is terminally ill, you’re just told to suffer. How do animals have more rights than we do in death?
I’ve never understood how it’s considered the “moral choice” from opponents of assisted dying to let people suffer.
Do you think people should be allowed to choose when to end their own life?
People who want to kill themselves will do it without permission.
What assisted dying provides is dignity for the person, and some amount of closure for the family.
I fully support assisted dying, because mandatory suffering is insanely cruel and inhumane.
We already have it in Switzerland.
I’m all for it. I actually had to promise my mum to off her in case she ever get’s dementia. (She had to care for her own mother with dementia for almost a decade, to the point where everyone in the family was just glad when she finally died).
Get something on paper. I have no idea what the laws are like in Switzerland, but a verbal promise may not be enough.
She already made sort of will for the case when she’s mentally impaired which would give me power over medical decisions (not quite sure what all the proper english terms here are).
Okay, good. I hope you never have to use it, friend!
Yup. On the other side I have a slight feeling she’s actively trying to spare me from it. She’s 60 now and just picked up climbing and caving … and not the “guided tourist” stuff. I think she’s now looking into diving …
That’s awesome! Glad to hear it!
promise my mum to off her in case she ever [gets] dementia
My dad has what we call a ‘DNR’ order after his time as an EMT prolonging the life of some elderly people who didn’t. He also now has a ‘living will’ after an affliction that will kill him in the next decade and is not feasibly preventable. Before his brain is too far gone from oxygen deprivation and he can’t be judged fit to make the call, he’s got provisions and criteria to end his life. He still had to meet with a psyche to ensure it’s what he wanted, a blessing since a former EMT who’s worked on the Water has more than enough information and no need to ask permission.
I live in Oregon in the US and we’ve had it for a number of years. We had to fight hard for that and even so its fraught with BS, but a couple years ago I had a family member make use of it and I was very glad it was available.
I’m also in favor of having it as an option for anyone. There should be nobody opining what I should do with my life or with my body who doesn’t know me at a deep and personal level.
It was introduced in my country (Canada) and immediately the government started talking about expanding access to it for people with intellectual disabilities; and worse yet, people with treatable conditions where the treatment is just very expensive. That freaks me out quite a bit.
I think it’s good for it to be available but there need to be significant guardrails on its availability. My cousin and his wife recently used it for her father, and based on my understanding of his situation, I think it was probably a lot better than letting him die slowly.
Some terminal illnesses, I think I’d prefer this route. ALS, for example. No fucking way am I doing that.
If it’s not a play on eugenics, just giving the terminal choices in how they go out, I don’t see the problem.
Say, didnt you guys hear about that one party which was hugely popular in germany once? The guy in charge was called “the boss” and they had a very specific greet.
They too extended it to people with disabilities.
I dunno… But it seems somewhat relevant…
you guys hear about that one party which was hugely popular in germany
Evil people can accidentally do humane things under completely evil reasons. The question is always what the victim actually wants.
But I completely respect your ability to make this false comparison and then loudly express concern for it, as reminding us how evil can even coerce people into a bad decision for purely inhumane reasons of cost around the alternatives is a way we can work to avoid that kind of mis-use of this process. We need to be reminded every moment about it.
Dying should always be a personal choice, and not even limited by physical or mental health. Other people having a say over it is, imo, evil.
It should be available to anyone as long as informed consent can be achieved and they’re of sound mind in the view of at least a few medical professionals.
I think it should be available as a medical directive, like a DNR order with specific criteria, and require several doctors to evaluate the criteria unanimously, and no family to object if the patient can’t give informed consent, only whatever form of consent they can give.
It should be called off if the patient objects, regardless of their ability to give informed consent.
Scenario I’m picturing is a person with dementia who previously filled out a form stating that if they’re no longer themselves or able to function, and other criteria they specified beforehand, and doctors agree the circumstances have been met, and the family doesn’t object, it should be able to proceed even though someone with advanced dementia cannot consent because they cannot fully understand. If they say no it must stop.I feel concern about people with mood disorders seeking that route, which is why I want a medical professional to say they’re of sound mind.
Ultimately it’s your life and your body, so you should be able to have that autonomy, but I think it’s responsible to pause if a doctor says you’re not in a rational place to make that type of choice.Yes, I think this is absolutely okay. However, I do think that it should be periodically reviewed, say, every five years and reaffirmed that this is actually what you want.
Absolutely. Thankfully we actually have it in the Netherlands, with some restrictions. I.e you do need to be clearly ‘suffering’ for a doctor to agree to it.
Personally though, I think there shouldn’t be any restrictions on this beyond making sure it’s a well articulated wish and not someone just having a bad day.
If say, a healthy 30 year old wants off this ride, they should be allowed to die with dignity at a time and place of their choosing. Nobody asked to be born, so we should at least give them the freedom to choose how they depart this realm.
In my opinion, nobody should disagree with that - it’s not your place to force someone to live if they don’t want to.
Thankfully we actually have it in the Netherlands, with some restrictions. I.e you do need to be clearly ‘suffering’ for a doctor to agree to it.
A judge in a region of Canada just ruled a girl of 27 may under-go Medical Assistance in Dying (aka assisted dying) when the only overt afflictions present are ADHD and Autism.
Are we enabling suicide, or are we merely enabling dignified suicide? When someone chooses to die - 6 times as often for boys - one of two things are gonna happen: they’ll be assisted or they won’t be. The result is the same, but one way has more dignity and less collateral fall-out.
I think we don’t gauge suffering like olympic judges gauge figure skating, and instead we just allow people to choose.
For sure. When your own body becomes a prison, you should have a say on whether you want out.
