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- cross-posted to:
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Microsoft is starting to enable ads inside the Start menu on Windows 11 for all users. After testing these briefly with Windows Insiders earlier this month, Microsoft has started to distribute update KB5036980 to Windows 11 users this week, which includes “recommendations” for apps from the Microsoft Store in the Start menu.
Luckily you can disable these ads, or “recommendations” as Microsoft calls them. If you’ve installed the latest KB5036980 update then head into Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.” While KB5036980 is optional right now, Microsoft will push this to all Windows 11 machines in the coming weeks.
Microsoft’s move to enable ads in the Windows 11 Start menu follows similar promotional spots in the Windows 10 lock screen and Start menu. Microsoft also started testing ads inside the File Explorer of Windows 11 last year before disabling the experiment and saying the test was “not intended to be published externally.” Hopefully that experiment remains very much an experiment.
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If I see your company or app advertised on windows 11, you can be sure I will be actively avoiding said company/ App. Even if I need the services advertised, I will be looking for an alternative just because.
I have the same policy for pop up ads.
I’m not sure these ads are even paid for by the developers of the apps that show up. It looks like this is an ad for the Microsoft Store in general, as Microsoft gets a percentage of any sales.
They also may be included if you pay for your app to be on the homepage of the Microsoft store
Yeah if your app has in app purchases or requires payment it probably can show up here. Probably in the contract you sign to put your app in the Microsoft store
No candy crush for this guy!
Or 1Password, apparently
Don’t disagree with the sentiment but I didn’t think companies had this much leeway in how their ads were displayed.
They can pick which type of ads they buy which this certainly will be its own premium category
How did the default attitude toward the user get so hostile? The amount of toggles you need to set just to have a smooth experience with minimal tracking is insane. The people in here defending it by the fact it can be disabled are missing the point: we shouldn’t have to deal with it in the first place.
You shouldn’t. I haven’t. Microsoft is a plague and a choice.
You’re not wrong, but there’s a larger issue here: the fact that there’s an alternative does not make what Microsoft is doing okay. This shit ought to be prohibited by consumer protection law.
Yeah it’s not just Microsoft. Fucking ads in my doorbell app, Google TV, etc.
Putting ads in a product you paid for should be illegal.
TBH I am fully expecting a world where, in the next 10-15 years, some company will make a car that plays unskippable audio ads every X number of miles/km which can be disabled for $9.99/month.
Your company can’t afford the ad-free version of Zoom, so this meeting is sponsored by Papa Johns®. Try the new Cheesy Papadia virtual background.
Before you can place this emergency call, here’s a word from our sponsors at Nord VPN.
I hate it as much as the next guy, but I certainly don’t see why it should be illegal (and disclaimer — Debian on all my personal machines, macOS for work).
Should it be illegal for books to have a list of similar material from the author/publisher? Should food staples not be able to list recipes on the back?
I completely agree that pulling the rug out from under the customer should be illegal (i.e., effectively changing the terms of service for an already-purchased product), but having a shitty product shouldn’t be illegal IMHO.
It really goes like this:
I buy product. Product has no ads, and works really well.
After updates, my device starts showing ads and works worse than it had before.
I bought the device. It is my device. I should be able to do what I want with my device, that I spent my money on, the way I like it. If that means I don’t want your shitty ads, then I should be able to avoid or opt out of those by default.
From your thought:
You buy cookbook. Cookbook has what you need already, which is why you purchased it.
The one you purchased it from comes and “updates” your book by scribbling in ads for it’s other recipe books, and they did it really sloppily to boot.
Now, when you are looking for a specific recipe that you knew was in the book before, instead it is an ad for their other recipe book in place of where the recipe you were looking for was.
Sure, you can still find your recipe somewhere in the book, but as you flip through the books pages you see more and more and more ads for their other recipe books, and oh, now they are also showing you ads from some of their sponsors.
You paid for the book. It is rightfully yours to do with it as you please.
The recipe book company already got your money, yet they are insistent you buy more from them, and have even gone as far as defacing your book.
You should be upset.
Yeah I think we’re in violent agreement to an extent — as I said in my last graf, if it’s effectively changing the user agreement, absolutely not ok. But if it’s a shitty product to begin with, then I’m just not going to buy it in the first place.
So yeah, Windows doing shitty things for users who have already paid for the product is definitely not cool. But for all users going forward to have a shitty experience? That’s… shitty, yeah, but I personally don’t think it should be illegal?
Hardcopy images in a book are a bit different from the typical proprietary software doing who knows what on your personal computer. Not saying ads should be illegal but I would argue for software freedom where you can remove ads from any software running on your computer - like you can rip pages out of any of your books.
Yeah, I guess it’s a matter of what the analogy is to “page.” I would say my computer is the book, and the pages are the software. If some developer wants to make a piece of shit ad ridden software, well, great — but I won’t install it :)
The choice is hard to make when Microsoft’s garbage has been shoved down your throat for decades, it’s the default pretty much everywhere and the only viable alternative, for 99% of the population, is Apple.
Governments have been way too lenient and passive towards Microsoft for far too long
the only viable alternative, for 99% of the population, is Apple
This is largely because Windows and MacOS come preinstalled and that’s how the vast majority of people interact with operating systems. If you had to choose your OS, I’m sure there’d be more choice in the market. Not necessarily Linux, but just more choice in general.
That’s pretty much my point, 99% of computers sold are sold with Windows on it and the leftover percent is 99% Apple and maybe 1% Linux.
And that’s mostly because no one did anything when Microsoft licensed their crap to big OEM.If any given computer sold was Linux (or any other free OS to be fair) by default and Windows as a paid option, it would change the market massively I believe. It would take time obviously but I’m convinced it would work in the long run.
You don’t choose your childhood education. Microsoft and Apple offer schools deals to create adults dependent on it - after all they’ll be using it in work too.
so?
This greatly affects the likelyhood of people choosing a particular OS later in life.
This is a direct result of our Wall Street economy. Wall Street demands that each corporation’s stock price shall increase every quarter. No matter what. If that means the customer is unhappy or that a corporation must consume itself from within. Doesn’t matter.
Pretty simple. Stock go brrrr.
Fewer people are buying PCs now that Smartphones have replaced the need to have one for most uses, but Microsoft still has to make more money every quarter than the quarter before because the stock market doesn’t value stable profits.
It got here because it’s super profitable, and that’s all the C-suite cares about, and they’re the ones calling the shots at the end of the day.
I also think that engineering ethics has, in general, been strongly de-emphasized, and true holistic ownership of technical products is now usually held by business and finance types instead of engineers, with all the negative consequences that that entails.
You know, I get if they want to do this to Home editions, but why in the world would they do this to all editions? At the very least, this should never apply to domain-joined computers.
Money
Seems short sighted to annoy the people who pay you the most money already.
What are they going to switch to?
Most orgs will just put up with it because of inertia: existing software that has to work, employee’s having to learn new skills, “sysadmins” who only know Microsoft, etc.
… “sysadmins” who only know Microsoft, …
HEY
Nothing personal, lol, but I stand by my quotes.
I feel like sysadmins need to be comfortable in multiple environments. I also work with some really crappy ones who only know how to reboot a faulty system or crawl to Microsoft for support. No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just “welp, a reboot didn’t fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort”.
There’s a lot to be said for a good generalist, but at some point, specialization takes you farther. I ended up with Windows server and Active Directory, as well as Exchange (lots of other stuff, too, but those are the main things). Apart from mass workstation management, or when a help desk person asks for a hand, I haven’t dealt with non-servers in a loooong time.
No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just “welp, a reboot didn’t fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort”.
My last few experiences with Microsoft support (spread over many years) have been “If I can’t figure it out, Microsoft probably can’t, either.” For a smaller company, with a limited IT staff, having someone who is able to efficiently interface with vendor support without necessarily having all the answers themselves can be a useful thing. But I totally get what you’re saying.
Profits now are all that matter. The future is a problem for after dividends and bonuses get paid out.
But they could be paying the most money even more.
how soon do you think ms gets hit with a lawsuit because a malicious ad infected BlackRock or Deloitte or some shit
If there’s anything that I’ve learned, it’s that lawsuits are more often than not, just a joke to the large companies.
Hell it’s often easier for them to just classify whatever fine they get slapped on the wrist with as a business expense, than to do the right thing, it seems.
I’m getting extremely close to making a tiny partition for windows (so I can play gamepass) and then using a Linux distro for my day to day. Are there still issues with Nvidia drivers on Linux? Its been a long time since I’ve run Linux.
PopOS handles nvidia drivers perfectly.
I recently installed Nobara with Nvidia on my three year old alienware desktop because of Windows 11 turning to advertising shit. Nobara is finicky enough that I might jump over to PopOS. Lots of shearing and frame skips in video, let alone in gaming. I don’t have this issue on my other laptop with PopOS on it.
Sounds like you’re not using the proprietary binary blob.
Are you referring to the additional installs in the Nobara Welcome App?
I dunno what DM that is but if it’s gnome, in the about it will tell you what graphics card you’re using and what kernel extension
System Details Report
Report details
- Date generated: 2024-04-24 17:43:52
Hardware Information:
- Hardware Model: Alienware Alienware Aurora Ryzen Edition
- Memory: 64.0 GiB
- Processor: AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900 × 24
- Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce RTX™ 3080
- Disk Capacity: (null)
Software Information:
- Firmware Version: 2.2.1
- OS Name: Nobara Linux 39 (GNOME Edition)
- OS Build: (null)
- OS Type: 64-bit
- GNOME Version: Not Available
- Windowing System: Wayland
- Kernel Version: Linux 6.8.5-201.fsync.fc39.x86_64
I’ve used both Linux Mint and Manjaro, and my Nvidia card has done fine in both. I switched to Mint from Windows because it was easier and faster to set up under Mint (Windows was missing a bunch of drivers and the OEM’s site didn’t have updated ones). The only configuration I had to do was select the proprietary driver (and Mint has a nice little GUI for that). If you’re on the fence, I highly recommend trying Mint.
Seconded. Mint is the best distro for anyone who wants to get started with Linux with the least amount of hassle. Installation is a breeze and it just works.
Thirded. I set Mint as the default boot, then have a copy of windows available as an alternative OS option when required.
I installed Mint last night as a dual-boot and had a few issues, the boot loader would not load into Windows Boot Manager and when I manually selected Windows Boot Manager in UEFI Windows booted but hard locked until it reindexed the drive I partitioned for Linux.
The Mint OS works fine, to be clear. My issue with the dual boot is mostly getting Windows to play nice.
Dual boot is definitely more tricky to get going. I just set up a Windows partition again to play a game that uses Easy Anti Cheat, and it took some time to have everything working happily.
I made it through two whole top level comments before getting to a switch to Linux comment.
It was my turn this week!
So you’re saying we should do better?
I have not tried it, but I’ve heard good things about bazzite as a good steam deck clone that has a strong community committed to Nvidia support.
Worth looking into at least!
steam deck clone
No way Jose. If anything their approach is inspired by Fedora Atomic, which is the cornerstone of Bazzite.
Other than that, yes, a very very solid approach for daily usage for casual gamers.
Oh it’s my time to shine! I just installed bazzite onto my ROG Ally yesterday.
It is pretty fantastic so far. Not perfect but very good.
Also, it doubles as a pretty OK developer machine because it comes with buildutils, unlike the steam deck. I was able to get my Nix dotfiles set up on it and do a little Rust work to try it out.
Bazzite is a neat concept, and I run it too. Still haven’t gotten VR to work properly, though (Quest 2)
I’ve had the rare issue with my 4070ti that probably wouldn’t have been a problem with AMD, but most things run great. Using endeavorOS
Well I changed my nvidia settings from on demand to a lower value and rebooted Mint a few weeks ago. Then there was no display at all and several hours/days of searching led me to reinstall Linux again and I did not have good backups. There was probably an answer there, but my frustration with Linux is real!!! I still refuse to use anything else and flop between manjaro and mint. I think having proper system backups and a live USB ready to go is helpful…I’m much more defensive running Linux because I keep getting shitty surprises, but I still feel better about it over using windows.
If you like arch based, may I suggest you try Garuda?
It’s a gaming distro, which I don’t know if you care about, but it’s very stable, should work with NVidia and has many quality of life features.
But a tiny partition will not do for Windows.
I switched to Pop OS a year ago and the Nvidia drivers are fine. There are definitely some things that are a pain in the ass. My fingerprint scanner won’t work even though it is in the list of ones that work in fprintd and I don’t feel like going through the process of submitting a ticket and troubleshoot it. Getting some games to run properly in WINE can also be a pain. Overall though, I’m fine with it.
I installed Linux Mint a few days ago. It’s been great so far.
I wanna like Linux but I play too many games with anti-cheats that just don’t work on Linux yet :(
I mean, you’re not wrong. Anticheat is pretty much the one thing that Linux doesn’t play nicely with. Given, it’s largely on the game producers to fix, not on the OS. But it’s still a valid complaint from an end user perspective.
If Linux fans truly want to encourage migration, stifling valid complaints isn’t the way to do it. The issue with everyone going “oh it’s so easy, it’s so much better, you won’t regret it at all” is that as soon as a user encounters a hangup they’ll be more inclined to just abandon it altogether. Because if everyone is going “oh it’s so easy” but you’re not having an easy time with it, then you’ll quickly conclude that maybe it’s just not the right fit for you. And the people going “lul just don’t play those games then dummy” need to get some friends. Because when all of those friends are playing the shiny new game but they’re locked out of it due to their choice of OS, they may consider dual-booting Windows just to be able to keep up with their friends.
But this is Lemmy and the Linux fanboys can’t tolerate a single toe out of line. So I guess it makes sense why you got downvoted.
Anticheat is pretty much the one thing that Linux doesn’t play nicely with.
It’s the other way around.
Anticheat doesn’t play well with Linux.
Honestly the best solution is to find alternatives
If the audience stays on Windows then there is no incentive to support Linux
Its not that easy. There is no alternative for some of the big games. I play genshin impact and honkai star rail and these games do not run on linux.
I use linux but keep windows dual booted purely for these games.
Asking people to give up their hobby is not a solution.
Asking people to give up their hobby is not a solution.
A solution doesn’t mean everyone will use it
Even if no one uses it that is still what has to happen for devs to target Linux instead of Windows
Imagine every Genshin player moved to Linux. Would the game move to Linux or just die?
I hear you, it sucks sometimes, especially with Asian-made games/software which LOVE locking themselves to one OS or platform literally for completely random, arbitrary reasons. You can still play them on mobile though. Especially given that you don’t quite want to install a Linux OS on your phone yet (I mean traditional Linux, not Android or a de-Googled Android offshoot) since that’s still largely a work in progress and not ready for primetime yet.
As far as I know, pretty much the only anti-cheat that doesn’t work on linux is the kernel-level malware kind. I personally avoid those games at all costs regardless. That’s easy for me to say though, since I barely play any competitive games…
Easy solution, stop playing those game /s
shrug.
its what I did. Its not that hard a sacrifice.
really only asian mmos that had the obnoxious no-worky-linux anticheat to begin with, in my experience with what i played.
Technically they do work, but the publisher is blocking Linux.
Hopefully those games go to steam deck as that seems like a way to have a market share they might then cater for (I can’t play BF on Linux due to the antichear requirements)
Windows 11 made my girlfriend’s laptop so slow, even she asked me to install Linux, and she is not even a techy type.
Nature is healing!
What do you like and don’t like about it so far? What system did you install it on?
Didn’t I pay for the OS?
You pay for the privilege of getting ads beamed directly to your desktop
I paid for 10.
Which is why I never enabled TPM on my motherboard. I didn’t pay for 11. I do not want 11.
I paid for 7 and upgraded it to 10. I may go to 12 later on (Windows alternates between solid and awful, so 12 may be fine) but it’s also quite likely I’ll wind up moving to a Linux distro as my primary and keeping Win10 as a fallback. No way in hell am I touching 11.
Did anyone pay for 11?
Microsoft has been giving it free left and right.
Everyone paid for a windows os, but they’ve been forcing upgrades for what I assume are completely unrelated reasons
I didn’t pay for the OS.
I think it’s safe to say that over 99% of custom built pc doesn’t run on proper windows license
Where did you come up with that figure? I have two PCs and they have two separate licenses. One is custom built and the other was prebuilt.
Even if that’s true, custome pcs are a tiny fraction of client computing, oem desktops and especially laptops completely own client computing, most people only ever get a laptop
Sure, we’ve had first payment…
Oh look another reason why I’ll be switching to Linux next time I have to upgrade my pc. Fml I’m going to have to learn what a package manager is ew
Fml I’m going to have to learn what a package manager is ew
Two minutes later
“Wait, you mean I get fast, convenient package delivery without being advertised to?”
The package manager was actually one of the simpler things about switching to Linux in my experience
Here i was thinking we were talking about men’s underwear
;) package managed
Package managers was one of things that I had hard time adjusting to when I first adopted Linux, since I was so used to just searching for software on the internet, downloading, and installing it when I was using Windows. Now that I’m comfortable with a package manager, I find the Windows experience of installing software to be so much worse. It’s so much nicer to just install software using one or two commands in the terminal.
I feel angry when I have to hunt down the installer for an application under Windows, and then know I have to go find it again later to update it. I have no clue how I got by without a package manager on Windows. Though if they had one, you have to know it would be complete intrusive dogshit about 5 minutes into its existence.
You can use the official WinGet package manager for Windows pretty easily.
Shhhhh Windows bad! /s
I mean… Windows is bad in many respects, but that respect isn’t necessarily one of them.
As a former Windows user, Chocolatey is a great way to get used to a package manager through Windows. I used it to install stuff like hwinfo or wiztree.
Chocolatey’s saving grace is that it’s third party. IDK how well it’s maintained and expanded, it’s been some time since I used it and there wasn’t much on it when I did.
They have a database of packages on their site. This page also popped up with info on how packages are moderated and stuff too.
Out of all of things in Linux a package manager most of the time is there to save your sanity.
I’ve been using some Linux flavor for about 15 years. The biggest thing about switching (at least back then) was I knew how to configure Windows just to my liking. With Linux it was a lot more difficult because I had to google everything. Like “how do I change the wallpaper?” How do I get the login screen to appear on the correct monitor, etc. It was just frustrating because I knew how to do this in Windows, but I felt like a major noob again with Linux.
15 years ago, you had to google everything, but people starting today will find it much easier with any of the modern GUIs.
Plus consider the whole systemd fiasco. Old timers find it difficult to adjust to such a different paradigm and lose so much knowledge, but someone new to Linux doesn’t have any previous knowledge in the way, and may find it more similar to their Windows experience
Yup same here. But I’ve compiled my own kernel already…copy pasting instructions. I’ve chrooted to a failed X computer from a USB Linux to then fix X and go back to a good computer. I mean there are levels of engagement and it just takes time to learn. But certainly android users are using a Linux-like system themselves not knowing anything about the levels below where all the action is. You can make Linux as dumb as windows 3.0…well maybe not as dumb. And you can make it as configurable as you want. I mean, you could even rewrite all modules and recompile them such that if a virus is hitting all other Ubuntus or mints, your system would be fine because it was different by a single letter or something as such.
use NixOS to get absolutely fucked.
I use NixOS btw
(don’t actually use NixOS as your first distro. It is really amazing and cool, but the learning curve will be so steep, it will kill you)
Dont forget dependencies
I didn’t know about them in order to forget :,(
How hard is it to make a decent OS Microsoft? Haven’t you got enough of our money already?
Honestly they peaked at windows XP.
I haven’t needed a upgrade and every time for the past 15 years, it’s been forced on me.
XP was great, but Windows 7 was the peak.
its been all down hill from 7.
Win7 was somewhat better IMO, at least at one point.
I consider Windows 7 to be Windows XP 2.
I consider XP to be Windows NT 5.1 and Win 7 to be Windows NT 6.1 :)
That’s what I was going to add… After Win7 the dissatisfaction mounted enough for me to try Linux… Then I kicked myself for not switching sooner
The shareholders must be appeased.
Windows sucks. I wish I could put Linux on my work computer.
I brought an acer leptop a couple of years back and acer made it nearly impossible to install any other os then windows onto it
Because of Intel RST? I just had to deal with that but was able to get a dual boot of mint on my acer.
edit For those who come across this who has the same issue as I did. Video: https://youtu.be/sGJL62ZYRTU?t=77 Text: Boot to your BIOS. Get to the MAIN tab and hit CTRL+S to show hidden bios option. Disable Intel RST. Exit and Save. Re attempt to install Mint.
Let me preface that with I’m a bloody linux and every releated noob and it’s been like 5 years so my memory is a little fuzzy: I never figured out why Ubuntu didn’t run but it just didn’t, after i got mint working i realized that there are no drivers and a leptop with out touchpad/wifi isn’t why I needed it in the first place…
It was an aspite 3 a315-41g. I quickly googled to refresh my memory and I read something about that, I can’t recall if I tried it out though. I needed to changed a few settings so maybe I tried.
Ah, I have the aspire a315-56. Mint was pretty painless for me after the RST issue. I didn’t have to worry about wifi/bluetooth/touchpad drivers at all. Right out of the box its been smooth (for linux) for me.
Interesting what distro did you use?
Everyone? This shit will be on my work computer???
I’m not sure tbh, but this should be deactivateable by gpos. Work machines should not be affected if the IT staff is on to it.
I hope they are and the world will be forced to either make a law against it or goodbye windows because fu.
Imagine having to pay employees to watch ads that make microsoft money, what a fucking joke that would be.
Just like other enshittification, they don’t care if you turn off the ads because they have a captive audience in your grandmother. Think of all the non-techies who will just accept this. Or not even conceive of a way to turn it off. The question is how many will this push to give up Windows? So far it’s proven extremely “sticky”, they have freedom to abuse their customers, who have to come back for more.
So it’s at least somewhat of a losing proposition for Microsoft as well, if people follow through. There are more choices available everyday, but it means learning something new.
I do need to revisit Window’s myself. I consume media on iOS, work on OSX and Linux, do home projects on Linux, so a lot of my time is other platforms. However my laptop is still Windows, for one remaining game plus tax prep software. I should try these again
When they rolled out the beta Microsoft said it wouldn’t be, but they could always change their mind with the general release. Excerpt from a previous Verge article about the beta rollout (https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/12/24128640/microsoft-windows-11-start-menu-ads-app-recommendations):
“This will appear only for Windows Insiders in the Beta Channel in the US and will not apply to commercial devices (devices managed by organizations),” says Microsoft in a blog post.
Unfortunately, this article doesn’t actually quote Microsoft saying it’s rolling out to ALL machines. That bit in the article is from the author.
And the wind screams Linux
“All you have to do is set some flags in GPO policy editor and relogin the first time and every time there’s an update. Easy”
- some Windows fanboi probably
The post literally tells you that the option to turn it off is in the settings menu at: Settings > Personalization > Start Menu > “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more "
It’s not good, but it’s way better than you are making it out to be.
At least until Microsoft decides to hide it deeper, like they do with all of their most useful options. Nothing like navigating fifteen layers deep into your settings just to change something basic.
Hopefully WinToys will have an update with this option, so it won’t matter where Microsoft decides to move it this week.
Why does the OS have to recommend you apps?
Just in case you didn’t have enough apps installed from the factory.
Thank god I use linux
So what you’re saying is we need adverts in the console?
Join the telnet channel now! Porsche cayenne fir free now!
Fucking unhinged idiocracy. Capitalism is the cancer of humanity
