Let’s take all that “You can’t POSSIBLY vote for GENOCIDE-adjacent person even if the alternative is LITERALLY A HUNDRED TIMES WORSE INCLUDING LOTS MORE GENOCIDE” energy
And apply it to “You can’t POSSIBLY sit around typing on the internet while the world is falling apart, let’s get involved in direct activism to make the US a better place instead of hoping that voting is enough which it definitely isn’t”
While also, yes, voting for “not the end of the world”
tl;dr - Vote and boo.
We need to protect our democracy, as the ability to freely choose between policies is fundamental to the perpetuation of a liberal society.
On that note, you have exactly one viable choice to make and it will - at absolute best - kick the can down the road for two years. At that point, you will once again be told we need to protect democracy.
At this point we’re just hoping for the most damage mitigation possible.
We have to protect our democracy where there is no choice but to vote for Biden!
Yeah, it’s a negative framing, but it is true as well. By being held to ransom, our options have effectively been reduced to one. That’s why you gotta do the work locally and advocate the need to break apart this system before it breaks us all.
I’ll vote if you do more than just vote.
You have no right to hold this over people’s heads, and even implying a tit for tat arrangement is suggesting that anyone who doesn’t “do more than just vote” isn’t doing their part. Some of us have demanding jobs, kids, family that requires care, or other demands that do not allow time for political activity beyond voting which has already been made extremely difficult in some areas.
In short: get fucked. Go vote. Don’t try to create some kind of one-upsmanship game that predicates your civic responsibility on someone else’s volunteered time.
This is extremely hostile. I was being cheeky. I want people to get more involved as much as other people want me to vote, that’s the point I’m trying to make. I’ll vote, and I don’t need you to try and scare me or shame me about it. Maybe ask yourself why this makes you so upset that you have to swear at a stranger over it. Seems like there’s something else going on that deserves your attention more than my dumb comment
It’s intended to be hostile. Maybe you were “being cheeky” (I doubt it) but it doesn’t read that way in a text format and a lot of people making those same statements are not. What makes me so upset about this situation is people like yourself not taking it seriously. We are, without hyperbole, looking at an honest to God threat to democracy and you are making if/then statements about your willingness to vote. Trying to shame people into being more politically active is the wrong way to do it.
I am tired of people treating this like it’s a game, and I am tired of people being flippant about voting for the lesser of two evils.
What makes you think being intentionally hostile toward someone would persuade them to vote? Wouldn’t it make more sense to try and educate? I said I was being cheeky, but even now you can’t resist calling me a liar. I really wish you wouldn’t, you know, I’m pretty easy to get along with, I tolerate other peoples opinions even when they disagree with me. I vote and I do much more than that.
If anyone is trying to shame, it is this group who descended on me within a 5 minute period with a flurry of down votes and open hostility. I’m genuinely sorry you’re upset about the state of the world, I’m upset too. so why should we try to upset each other more? It doesn’t make sense.
FYI that isn’t me down voting you. I don’t use down votes.
Nice of you to assume people who vote don’t do anything else to improve things.
How will you look back on whatever you’re doing right now if you, and people like you, don’t vote and lead to Trump winning? All that work for nothing because you refused to do the one thing that could help everything else you’re trying to do.
I didn’t say that, where did I say anything like that? Why are you trying to villainize me? I want other people to get involve as badly as you want me to vote, is the point I’m trying to make. Save your shame and fear. Try talking to me like a person and not, I don’t know, whatever demon you’re trying to make me out to be
That’s exactly what you said
“I’ll vote if you do more than just vote.”
You’re implying that you know they don’t do more than vote and that implies you assume the same thing of anyone that votes.
That’s an incredibly dim interpretation. I just don’t like being constantly lectured to about voting. It is completely valid to criticize this crappy system and yeah I think its okay to suggest that people do a little more than just vote every 2-4 years.
It seems like people aren’t getting as upset at the idea that I might not vote, as they are at the suggestion that there is some alternative to it, that democracy can be more than voting for one of two deeply corrupt candidates who uphold a deeply corrupt system. I will vote, because its easy.
Get hooked up with Election Science to switch your elections to approval. Pick-all-you-like voting really helps make people feel like they actually got to voice their opinion at the ballot box.
I have friends who are into this kind of electoral work. It would be an improvement.
Doubt.
Doubt what? That I’ll vote? Why do you doubt it?
I just want people to be more politically active so that they learn from experience. For some reason certain people get angry when I do, even if I do it nicely, even if I say please
Doubt what?
That you’ll execute on that specific conditional.
Its not conditional, I just want people to be politically active just as much as people want me to vote.
So my doubts have been confirmed. Glad you fell on the side of voting anyways.
If you think I’m being ridiculous, I could flip through my history and find a dozen folks who would unironically holdfast to the letter of your original comment.
What do you mean your doubts have been confirmed?
Look at the other comments on this thread, the incredible hostility my innocuous comment got. So that road goes both ways. If I reacted to the way I got jumped on here, I’d probably set up camp in the not-voting bloc too.
So is your vote contingent on whether people in this thread demonstrate that they have/will “do more than just vote”? If they don’t, will you abstain from voting?
I guess I’m unclear.
Then afterwords we pass electoral reform right?
so people can vote for the candidate that best represents them, with no spoiler effect because their vote is still counted against the republicans. Democrats believe in democracy right?
Seriously, why can’t they get a better candidate? 😕
I get the feeling most of the critics to this post don’t actually live in the US. When it’s you, your family and your friends in danger of being shipped off to the death camps, no amount of philosophical masturbation matters in comparison.
I live in the US, born and raised. I am queer and a racial minority as well as very politically active. I and everyone I know will be refusing to vote for Biden. He has made nothing meaningfully better since Trump and in fact has made things worse. Regardless of that, I can’t in good conscience vote for someone aiding a genocide. I think everyone who is voting for Biden in the US must be very privileged and unaware or otherwise removed from the effects of the severe decline in living standards under his administration. But even if that weren’t true… he’s aiding a literal mass-child-murder genocide, and by voting for him, I’d feel like I was giving my approval for such a heinous, despicable thing. I wish the democrats had put forward a decent human being that I could vote for, but they didn’t, and I can’t. The US is sliding towards fascism and if you think that won’t keep happening just because the blue team puts their geriatric genocidal guy at the top, I think you’re painfully naive.
I’m trans and live in the US, I just also have an actual spine.
The way people talk about Palestinians today is the way they’ll talk about trans people tomorrow. Based on the logic of lesser-evilism, if the next election comes down to a democrat who wants to genocide trans people, and a republican who wants to genocide trans people and some other group(s), then you’ll deploy the exact same arguments about supporting “lesser genocide.” No one is safe once we accept this logic, at that point it’s all about trying to shift to target onto another group’s back to protect yourself.
Solidarity isn’t just about doing the right thing, it’s a practical survival strategy. It’s about different groups banding together and recognizing that an attack on one is an attack on all, and that no amount of genocide towards any group is acceptable.
How are you blind to the fact that Republicans currently want to genocide trans folk…
Because they’re delusional. There are some love letters to China in their history. I guess genocide is fine if it’s against Uighurs, huh?
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How many Native Americans had The USA killed? Because they are still regulated to Reservations and have no real Representation in Congress to this day.
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Me exactly
Yeah, how exactly independent are supposed to do something that reflects public interests for once if you don’t even consider voting independent?
Maybe be mad at the dems for doing literally nothing to get votes rather than people that don’t want to vote for genocide?
You don’t get the choice of no genocide. You get the choice between some genocide far away, or lots of genocide far away and some more at home.
I suppose that not voting is a choice, but that choice isn’t “I don’t want genocide”, that choice is “I don’t care how much genocide we have”.
I wonder if there will be any self awareness when trump wins because they tried to push a candidate even they dont like. Really inspiring them swing states.
Why would there be? The first time Trump won it was when an unlikable Democrat ran. Anyone trying to teach the DNC to run better candidates by voting for Trump is just shooting themselves in the face.
luckily, your vote only really matters if you live in a swing state
🥲
Then vote and make your state a swing state. Tf?
I’ve been voting all my life, silly. This is statistics, not a TV show where the power of believing in yourself magically saves the day.
Ironically the more people that listen to your advice, the less your advice is accurate.
It’s almost like you’re bait and switching logic for emotional reactionism.
I’ve seen this play before. Let me guess, you’d say Biden is a genocidal monster singlehandedly genociding Palestine, and also a useless fool who can hardly function, right?
Not how that works.
I don’t think you have the authority to speak on that based on your previous comments.
Your vote matters regardless of where you live in the US. City, County, and State elections are extremely important.
I never claimed that, the image was talking about presidential elections.
Unless you live in a swing state, you’re not changing jack with you vote – not without a whole lot of community organizing, something us Americans are just famous for…
Down ballot is very important no matter where you live. If you’re conscious enough to recognize your vote for Biden won’t tip the scales you should be conscious enough to know your vote could be very important for other candidates on the ballot.
Disregarding the down ballot issues, this is an incredibly myopic viewpoint.
States change affiliation. It takes time. And a red state that is less red than the previous election? That gets noticed. Policies can shift, slowly. More local offices will be challenged.
Comment more drivel 🤣😂😭
I am not ever voting for Joe Biden again.
You really gonna show us.
Pst, Bidens stance on Isreal was well known before the 2020 election.
Yeah if I’d known he wasn’t just Obamas weird old man vp I wouldn’t have voted for him in 2008 either.
Please, tell me. What is Obamas stance on isreal?
‘again’ acting like an ignorant jackass like yourself had ever voted for him in the first place. If you’re even an American and eligible to vote.
stfu and fuck right off.
2008, I didn’t know back then that he literally had a hand in almost all the country’s problems and several that directly impacted me or people I know.
It’s an easy problem to solve, just run a different guy.
Holy moly you did it, you solved all the problems.
you should run for the DNC board.
It’s an easy problem to solve, just run a different guy.
Deal, how do I do that?
You can’t pick who the democrats run, but you can not vote for their candidate when he’s terrible.
Yeah, that’s what the primary is for.
In the general, why would I vote in any way that does not directly contribute to ensuring that Trump is not elected?
Every President I’ve ever voted for has lost in my state. So if you want me to vote for Joe Biden, that’s fine. But when he loses in my state, its on your head.
No, it very literally is on the residents of your state who didn’t vote for him’s heads.
Get a grip lmao
Vote how ya like, but consider using the extra free time to campaign for electoral reform in your state. How we vote is controlled at the state level, so we don’t need to wait for federal reform to do something about First Past The Post voting.
That way there is a little bit bigger chance a 3rd party more to your liking would be created. Nothing is for certain, but this is our one life so we gotta take the shot.
- Your vote for president likely doesn’t matter unless you live in one of a few states
- The Dems love that they can just scare you into voting against Trump rather than doing things that would excite you to vote Blue
- They love you caring more about Trump than Gaza or Cop City or Haiti
- There’s WAY more to vote for than President
rather than doing things that would excite you to vote Blue
You mean like doubling the overtime exemption salary, reinstituting net neutrality, forcing airlines to refund cancelled flights and banning non-compete agreements in nearly all cases? Because those all happened like, last week. Not to mention larger policies like student loan forgiveness, abortion, etc. that are supported nearly exclusively by Democrats.
It is hard to get the news to cover positive things that don’t get people angry, so a lot of people think that the Dems aren’t doing anything.
The Dems do need to learn how to promote their successes.
I think the corporate media specifically doesn’t want to highlight the many small Ls they’ve taken.
Don’t pawn the responsibility of tankies onto an entire political apparatus.
If tankies can’t think critically, they deserve all the stomps from authoritarian boots they’re licking.
What do tankies have to do with my comment about Dems needing to up their media game?
Counterpoint: the dems wouldn’t have implemented these changes if people weren’t fucking angry at them.
With Gaza, I think this is completely accurate (and even then there’s a disconnect between the huge level of outrage and the tiny little concessions to humanity that the Democrats have enacted as a result under that pressure).
With most things, it’s not. You can’t possibly tell me that sweeping climate change legislation, creating a small amount of support in the tiny minority of people in the US who are aware enough of what’s going on to care, but incurring the anger of the incredibly powerful fossil fuel lobby, was done because of cold political calculus. I think it’s actually borne out of genuine concern (which makes sense – these politicians’ kids and grandkids have to live on the planet in the future too, and they don’t have the Republican luxury of living in a pure fantasy-world where they think somehow that it won’t impact them.)
Don’t forget the rejoining the Paris climate Agreement, proposal to lower overdraft fees, and the marijuana rescheduling efforts. But yeah literally nothing good from this administration /s
That shit doesn’t get passed when the dems feel safe. Criticising Biden (including the announcement that you wouldn’t vote for him) is how democracy is supposed to work.
That shit doesn’t get passed when the dems feel safe.
The process to properly implement these reforms done via government agencies takes years of public comments (tens of thousands of them, and you have to respond to every one!), review, etc. if you don’t want their effects to just be immediately repealed like many of Trump’s were.
You’re allowed to criticize Biden, and I am allowed to defend him. Nobody’s censoring you.
Criticizing? Absolutely.
Taking the asinine position of completely ignoring the realities of our political and electoral system and thinking that complaining misanthropically on the Internet is, somehow, a more effective means of bringing about change…that is not, in my view, how democracy is supposed to work (not saying this is what you’re doing, just that there’s a lot of that in this thread).
If you were actually concerned with democracy functioning how it should, you would vote for Biden and not let Trump win full stop.
I can’t vote in the US, genius.
And I’m not interested in upholding parliamentary democracy, since I don’t think it’s very democratic at all.
Wow, how am I not going to assume that someone commenting on the US election is not from the US? Genius.
Trust me: If I had the choice, I would gladly never hear a single word about US elections, ever again.
Unfortunately, I not only have to worry about your so-called country on stolen land slipping down into fascism, but you guys actively enable Israel bombing 40000 palestinians and counting.
Mostly agree, but you be saying #2 like scare tactics isn’t the standard practice for mostly all politicians in every party these days (not even just in the USA, but all around the globe). Trying to make that a trait of a specific party feels kinda disingenuous to me.
Dems got stuck on fear-based politics in 2015 and never recovered.
This is of course secondary to their primary strategy of fear-based fundraising. They’re a fundraising organization first and foremost. They forgot how to be actual political representatives long before 2015.
If you need anything more than “the other candidate is a fascist running openly on a platform of doing fascism” to do everything you can to vote and get others out to the polls too, you may turn your ally badge in and sit at the table with all the other fascists.
Formal proposal that all the grammable marches and rallies post security that check for proof of having voted to get let in, sounds like a club bouncer, but these people are coming hard with “bachelorette party at a gay club” energy anyways.
You assume that voting will make a difference but it won’t. Not only because most of us don’t live in swing states but also, because voting doesn’t change American politics. Biden showed us that. Hell, Obama showed us, America is still gonna be it’s ugly self no matter who’s in the oval office.
I refuse to keep pretending that a blue guy in charge is meaningfully better. They just talk nicer and give the people here a couple more things.
I want everyone to demand what they actually want, not settle for the guys who seem better than those other douchebags.
Your proposal is terrible lol
- Your vote for president likely doesn’t matter unless you live in one of a few states
Unless the NPVIC gets through before November
“I have to vote for Biden to make sure Trump doesn’t get in office and start doing all this bad stuff that Biden is currently doing”
Great logic…
I love when there’s a comment that’s so wrong it’s not even necessary to post anything disagreeing with it
Like what’s the point. I’m gonna come in here with some kind of fact check like “As a matter of fact, Biden has NOT tried to order the National Guard to fire on the Palestine protestors with live ammunition! Or told his followers to attack the capitol to kill anyone who stands in the way of him seizing power anyway, if he loses in November. It’s a common misconception I know!”
Woaw, the lifelong politition is more underhanded and “Respectable” than the blohard gameshow host, imagine that! They both still treat people like things, there’s blood on their hands. The methodology and scope is different.
Biden works through the existing structures; sacrificing children, families, communities overseas.
Trump gets a half dozen of his sycophants trampled in a sports riot.
In terms of domestic policy, they both have more in common than in difference.
sports riot
🧐
Enhance
that’s what jan 6th was
a real coup is when the military overthrows an elected body. It is not a bunch of dorks in costume wandering around an antichamber
wandering around
Enhance
Have you given this level of scrutiny to every life lost in Palestine?
I feel like I talked about this before
Biden has NOT tried to order the National Guard to fire on the Palestine protestors with live ammunition
Caring about Palestinian lives is a big reason why I think Trump coming to power again would be a disaster.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-israel-finish-problem-gaza-1234981038/
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/muslim-ban-what-just-happened
But anyway, enhance
https://www.newsweek.com/pence-refusing-get-secret-service-car-jan-6-chilling-raskin-1700341
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_of_the_January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
Enhance
“January 6th was just a guided tour”
This and other comedic hits originally produced by the GOP covered by today’s hottest artist; tHe TaNkIeS
a real coup is
No true attack on democracy lol
Coups are apparently only a coup when the coup is successful huh? What a brainless comment…
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I genuinely cannot comprehend how uneducated and uninformed one must be to think Biden has done the same or worse than Trump LOL.
The problem is that from an anti-capitalist perspective, any pro-capital candidate is completely unacceptable. We have never really been given the option for anything else.
Obviously there are degrees of wrong, but man, it really isn’t a good situation to be in to have to vote for one degree of wrong over the other. Even if it is multitudes of shades worse than the other.
I don’t find it productive to blame the voter for our situation. All you are doing is alienating would-be allies on the left.
You are either a Russian troll or you have fallen victim to the trolling and have been indoctrinated.
Biden is orders of magnitude a better choice than Trump who is literally the closest political figure to Hitler I have seen in my life…
Biden is orders of magnitude a better choice than Trump
How Israel tortures Palestinians
Israeli officers went on to teach one method of torture to American occupation forces in Iraq torturing detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison.
Dubbed “the Palestinian chair,” according to Eric Fair, a former American interrogator at the prison, the stress position has detainees crouch their bodies on the chair, with their weight centered on their thighs.
“They call it the Palestinian chair,” Fair wrote in his memoir “Consequence,” referring to two American army sergeants.
“They say the Israelis taught them how to build it during a joint training exercise. I assume it’s called the Palestinian chair because that’s who was forced to sit in it,” he wrote.
“They say everyone breaks in the chair.”
In his memoir, Fair describes the self-disgust he went on to live with having witnessed a detainee tortured in the Palestinian chair.
“Witnessing a man being tortured in the Palestinian chair requires the witness to either seek justice or cover his face. … I’ll spend the rest of my life covering my face,” he wrote.
“Having seen the Palestinian chair, it’s impossible to deny that it has all been wrong.”
can you elaborate on this as a pro-Trump argument
So we’re using Bush era torture to justify inaction against fascism? Idk man seems a little weird.
I get voting isn’t enough and half the problem is people often limiting their involvement in society to a ballot once every four years, but I’d really like to prevent The Palestinian Chair from being used on anyone deemed an enemy of the state by a man who is talking about deporting 11 million people.
Democrats have been wholly inactive on facsism. Weve held power for four years and should have done literally anything about the looming fascist threat instead of sitting on our hands. The fact that Trump is even on the ballot, and not behind bars, is a damning indictment of Democrats’ spinelessness in the face of problems.
It should be horrifying that we’ve let democracy be on the ballot.
It’ll be the same shit and more. We all know there is gonna be more. The Republicans are telling us to our face. Really is crazy how anti gun the democrats are even after the events of the last 8 years. Some of us aren’t privileged to be on the bottom of the Republicans hit list.
First Past The Post voting: Heads we tie, tails we lose. Wanna play this game for the rest of our nation’s existence?
No one supports that logic lol.
