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White House levy to protect US makers from cheap imports likely to inflame trade tensions
The US president, Joe Biden, has announced a 100% tariff on Chinese-made electric vehicles as part of a package of measures designed to protect US manufacturers from cheap imports.
In a move that is likely to inflame trade tensions between the world’s two biggest economies, the White House said it was imposing more stringent curbs on Chinese goods worth $18bn.
Sources said the move followed a four-year review and was a preventive measure designed to stop cheap subsidised Chinese goods flooding the US market and stifling the growth of the American green technology sector.
…
Despite the risks of retaliation from Beijing, Biden said the increased levies were a proportionate response to China’s overcapacity in the EV sector. Sources said China was producing 30m EVs a year but could sell only 22-23m domestically.
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I guess Americans will never get cheap electric cars. Make no mistake. US automakers aren’t going to use this tariff to buy time to make competitive cheap electric cars. They’re just going to rest on their laurels and continue to sell large overpriced trucks, SUV and their EV counterparts.
That’s what pisses me off here, I just want something affordable to get from a-b work commute, I’m not spending $80k on an electric suv that I only have because I’m forced into work.
It’s gonna end up with me buying a moped or small motorcycle to get to work at reasonable cost
Citizen, you must pay tribute to your CEO overlords!
I’m thinking of getting a smart car for city driving since I often have to haul gear from one borough to another, but REALLY don’t want a traditional car, much less an SUV. They seem so much easier to find parking for
It’s gonna end up with me buying a moped or small motorcycle to get to work at reasonable cost
Actually glad to hear that. That’s one positive outcome from this aggressive nationalist bullshit decision from Biden. Electric cars (even cheaper, smaller ones from China) aren’t an appropriate way to address climate change. Converting car drivers to two wheelers is way more of a positive move and will also have major benefits to traffic and pedestrian safety. Way better than buying a big fucking American electric pickup truck or SUV.
You’re kinda skipping over a few things as well as something the previous comment mentioned.
- Weather. I live in a pretty big metro area that has freezing cold winters and sweltering hot summers (with high humidity).
- Cargo space is definitely something to think about. There are a lot of families that have to drive to a store for a family’s amount of food for the week
- Long distances to get to anything in the suburbs amplifies issues 1 and 2 (including usually no pubic transportation to help)
- The previous commenter mentioned they don’t want a giant SUV and just want an affordable electric car.
All these things are a reason cars are a huge necessity in most of the US. Yes, getting to an area where we can all mostly use 2 wheels would be great, but we should recognize that doing better is a great step forward instead of shooting it down because it’s not perfect.
I say all this as a person who works from home so I don’t have to worry about a commute, has a small car for necessary trips, and does my best avoid unnecessary driving and makes sure to carpool at every opportunity.
Whatever makes the O&G industry more money, eh?
Spice must flow
Yeah, cause now the cheap competitor they could compare to just got pricier so that means they can also raise prices
Didn’t we already learn this lesson with Harley Davidson?
I guess Americans will never get cheap electric cars.
You can always drive them over the border from Mexico.
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I said that US automakers don’t want any Americans buying cheap EVs. They’ll happily sell you an EV just be ready to pay mid-high five to low six figures for it. No way in hell do they want to make 20k EVs.
Ahhhh the free market lovers !
tim Apple can use Chinese Labour to build his shit and make a trillion dollars.
You try to save a few thousand bucks on Chinese car ? DIE, TRAITOR.
The reason why you’re saving on Chinese cars is because of huge government subsidies on their side, so they don’t play by the rules of the free market either.
Oh, like the time in 2009 when the US government gave $81 billion dollars to the automotive industry? Or again in 2023 when Biden put $12 billion in incentives on the table for them to make EVs?
Nailed it. Sick and fucking tired of hearing the “oh China’s unfair subsidies blah blah” bullshit. The US has been doing the same thing, just we’ve had our futures sold to corporation’s profit margins.
Plus the $7500 tax credit for buying an electric car, this is another form of subsidies for car maker.
Show me where I said the USA doesn’t do something similar?
Nobody has ever played by the rules of the free market. It’s been a scam from day one.
I mean, Our government could do the same thing to keep costs low and competitive instead of just making them more expensive for everyone.
Government giving money vs government getting money
Yeah, basically the same thing 👍
Google “US subsidies to auto industry”. Add to the numbers . Come and share your result with the class.
So? I never said the USA plays by the rules, I even used the word “either” in my previous reply.
I think what they’re saying is that both countries are subsidising the industries.
Chinese companies are thinking ahead and using the subsidies to sell more vehicles
American companies are, surprise-sur-fucking-surprise, stealing the subsidies to make a few billionaires richer
The reason you’re saving on the running costs of a gas car is because of huge government subsidies on the fossil fuel industry.
Show me where I said the USA doesn’t do something similar
It’s funny how everyone tries to make China subsidizing cars for its population a bad thing. The US should bet taking note. Taxes should be used to help the population, not the people in charge of the population.
Yeah but the right way to do it is to stop oil subsidies
That won’t make US made EV cheaper. China relies on what is basically slavery as well, if that’s what you want for US factory workers in order to be able to buy a car for cheap car then I think you don’t have your priorities straight…
I think you might be in a bit of a bubble mate.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited
Prison Labour Contribute 11bn to the US economy.
Right, those prisoners working unionized jobs in car factories
Uyghur slavery represents a very small fraction of Chinese labor. Yes, it is a human rights abuse and should absolutely be stopped, but bringing it up every time someone talks about a Chinese product with no known ties to slave labor is an anti-asian dogwhistle.
China is a big place, with 10x as many people as in the U.S. Let’s try not to generalize about 3 billion people.
My comment wasn’t about Uyghurs specifically but Chinese work conditions in general
Fair, thanks for the clarification
Tell me how much money the CEOs make then tell me how much worker wages have to do with how expensive the cars are.
GM’s CEO makes 28m/year
A drop in the bucket with their 170b in revenue
Their factory workers make way over 20$/h, some make way over 50$/h.
How much do you think Chinese factory workers get paid?
GM’s CEO makes 28m/year
Looking back at the last 5 years, General Motors’s selling, general & admin expenses peaked in December 2023 at 9.656 billion.
Selling, General & Admin Expenses For General Motors
If you include the incentives across the entire business, rather than just fixating on a single employee, you discover a figure equal to around 5% of the $171B in gross revenues. It should be noted that even this is a conservative estimate, as General Motors licenses and contracts to third-party businesses with their own administrative expenses.
How much do you think Chinese factory workers get paid?
In the China versus US size stakes, it’s what you measure that counts
This matters for the debate over which of the US or China has the larger economy because, measured at market exchange rates, US GDP is still around 40% larger than that of China. (See Chart 1.) But when measured at PPP exchange rates, China’s economy overtook that of the US in 2016 and is now about 20% bigger.
Because of the cheap cost of living in China, their factory workers can earn less on paper and still live much higher on the hog. Often literally (Chinese consumers eat about 5kg more pork per capita than their American peers). But also in terms of home ownership rates (90% in China to 60% in America) and retirement age (54 in China compared to 59 in the US) and life expectancy (78 in China compared to 76 in the US).
If you consult the Gini Index, the US and China are within 2 points of each other as of 2021.
This is largely thanks to the big public works financed and administered by a unified national government. A relatively poor country can produce quality of life superior to the global leader simply by doing the old FDR style tax-and-spend tricks that put America at the front of the pack 80 years ago.
Then the US should match that and subsidize Electric Vehicles. Everyone wins.
huge government subsidies on their side
China’s public education, public health care, public housing, and public mass transit: Evil Subsidies
America’s $7500 tax credit: Sensible free market EV incentive
Also uiger slavery
In order to get subsidies, companies have to concur in public exams pitching their plans. It’s no different whatsoever from getting private funds somewhere else. Private funds are often obtained by way of being close friends with someone - which happens a lot in my country. If anything, getting government subsidies is proof that you have your act together.
It’s a free market.
So is imposing tariffs then
GM and Ford manufacture in China. It doesn’t affect American designed and Chinese produced vehicles, only companies that are based in China.
These “free market” arguments keep missing the key detail. Reading is hard.
subsidised Chinese goods
I don’t remember China subsidizing American products and then shipping them back to us.
Why do you think that might be ?
One funnels money into American business, the other into the Chinese government. It’s not some secret plan. It’s clearly declared.
Apple has been getting the hell out of building things in China — if you hadn’t noticed.
And what ?
The funny thing is, even after the 100% price increase they’re still cheaper than american EVs.
Not if they use that money to subsidise American EV’s.
Fair point.
Bimbo Baggins: “I think I’ll just keep it!”
One can only hope!
Adjusted for inflation, they’re even cheaper than the Geo Metro was. 1998 Metro is around $19k in 2024 dollars, while some of these Chinese cars are clocking under $14k.
However, you should also expect it to function like a car cheaper than a Geo Metro.
Simple way to make this policy make sense. Instead of a tariff on imports make it a huge subsidy on domestic EVs. We can give the military contractors billions, but giving the American people cheap cars is somehow a bad investment? Soon many positive side effects of a direct, non monetary stimulus
There’s no incentive for US automakers to build cheaper EVs from this. This is just protectionism which is fine when China is subsidizing their production past the point of profitability, but this will still work against making American EVs more affordable.
Didn’t US companies that were making EV raise their prices as soon as the government added or increased buyer incentive rebates?
The greedy assholes basically pocketed the rebate while the consumer got nothing.
So IMO these manufacturers will just pocket a significant chunk of the subsidy and pass little of the savings on to the consumer. Already many of them claim financial woes, it’s no stretch for them to soak up the cash and say “but we had to…” and get no punishment because the administration doesn’t want to kill the industry it’s trying to support. I mean, $55bn pay packages have to come from somewhere, right?
Make the subsidy based on current prices and only EVs that are X price or below qualify. There are solutions, we would just have to, I dunno, craft thoughtful legislation aimed at helping Americans and not companies? Sounds like a lot of work though…
Or let me put it this way: do you think lawmakers write the laws they sign? Industry groups and lobbyists write the laws, lawmakers tweak them or just sign them.
This is what France is doing.
The subsidy for EV is 27% of the price of the car with a maximum of 4000€. (+3000€ for people with low revenues).
The cost of the car must be under 47000€, the car must weight less than 2400kg and it must have a low environmental impact during its production.
The goal of this last rule is clearly to indirectly exclude cars produced in China. I think tariffs against a specific country is not possible in the European Union so French lawmakers had to come up with a creative solution to exclude Chinese cars.
Makes sense to me. Guess they had to put some thought into it.
Our laws are as good as we make them. Our legislators don’t wanna put in the work, frankly it seems because they don’t care. All that matters is lobbyists money and that your team wins.
When China opens up it’s domestic market to international goods then the rest of the world should consider doing the same. Until then, match every barrier to entry.
Why?
Why should China be allowed to put in place barriers to entry but not the rest of the world?
So china is authoritarian and restricts their people’s market choices and the solution we are going with is just matching that? Pretty sus
Fair trade or no trade. The only way little kids learn to play fair is if the other kids stop playing with them when they cheat.
Fair trade or no trade.
Did the US ever have fair trade to begin with? It seems like we’ve got a long history of undercutting, outsourcing, and drop shipping.
Well, welcome to the world, life isn’t fair
If China can sell us cheap, efficient electric cars but we can’t sell them expensive gas-guzzling ICE vehicles, it creates an unfair competitive advantage for a Chinese fleet.
On the other hand, the cheap Chinese cars are the result of a long chain of slavery and exploitation
Go on…
Lol he’s beating Trump to it. It won’t help him at all, but it is funny because it will piss the orange asshole off.
I predict Trump will make a day-one promise to remove this tariff calling it terrible, just terrible.
Entirely possible
So Trump can be controlled with reverse psychology, like a 2 year old. Definitely possible.
They excerpted Trump on the PBS Newshour yesterday at one of his latest campaign rallies. Apparently his stance on this is that Biden should have done the EV tarriff four years ago. Now, four years ago today, Donald Trump was President, but let’s not let that get in the way of a good speech, right?
hell yes Americans hate cost effective stuff
And the environment! It’s double whammy of an American policy
It’s the chicken tax all over again
I’m still more interested in one than I am a Tesla.
Nice try, Joe, but I will never buy a Tesla. Ever.
How can anyone see this and not see that the US is a manipulative shithole country? Champion of the free world markets except when they aren’t winning, then closed market manipulation and government interference.
The US hasn’t been ahead for many years and they can’t innovate. So now they just want to keep out actual progress.
I wouldnt call cheap cars made by slaves innovative
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I haven’t read this yet but it looks relevant:
https://insideevs.com/features/719015/china-is-ahead-of-west/
Interesting read, thanks
the way to do it is a mile based shipping tax on all goods, but congress would have to do that. This is just dumb.
Edit: it does say these EV’s are subsidized
Electric is literally life. Fossil fuel is death. Chose wisely.
It’s literally not.
