yeh he beefed continuously with the more traditionalist religious establishment who were admitedly far less down than him for recognizing women as actual autonomous human beings because every school of traditional Islamic jurisprudence or theology is, by any material or abstractly ideological/theoretical estimation, deeply reactionary. His view as not very coherent imo but it was still based on elements of traditional Islam. It was not Islamist as he did not actual allow the full islamisation of the institutions of the state in a way that Islamists would want. Tbh I think it was a mix of genuine belief on his part that it was holding back the development of society, of a populist political maneuver, and the fact that he was ideologically a weird guy.
Islam is weird because it’s gone in so many different ways over the centuries. I check in on the various Islamic feminisms from time to time because the way they approach feminist issues is often very different from Western feminisms, and it’s interesting and challenging to see how other ideologies confront similar problems.
Sure. From a materialist perspective my first question is first and foremost whether actually existing movements are relatively progressive in their context, although this in no way should blind us to their problematic aspects that remain regardless. Otherwise the perspective is moralist in the pejorative sense.
Like for instance from an outside - and apparently normally from an inside - perspective it certainly looks like traditional schools of Islam leave very little leeway, theoretically speaking, for politically progressive views on questions of gender, sex and sexuality. Indeed the Qur’an itself is pretty clearly not a progressive text on these matters. By-the-bye I’m never going to be fond of any body of thought which does not seem to find slavery in and of itself repulsive (in fact allows it), especially if it claims to have on hand the ad-verbatim word of God, in which the main prophet (and ultimate moral standard) married (according to what is traditionally considered the most reliable of the Hadiths) an underage girl, and in which if anyone does not believe the revelation when presented to them then they will spend an eternity being tortured in hell (which might also happen for other at-first-glance minor offenses). Especially when the actual arguments given in the text for theistic belief are extremely weak, if there at all. Telling that to children (especially girls) in particular is child abuse imo, having been told similar things myself. For me it is clear that the regressive policies in many Islamic countries with respect to these questions are not simply reducible to the effects of, say, Western colonialism and imperialism, as I’ve sometimes heard people suggest. Of course at the end of the day I think these are mainly issues for the peoples of these societies, though I guess some people on this site might disagree, having seen their support for example for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Saying this ofc has nothing to do with the immense richness of the many cultures where the people who make them up are predominantly (though not entirely) Islamic. Islamic philosophy for example is still very interesting in many ways, although much of it has relevance beyond the confines of Islam.
And of course women - feminists and otherwise, whether Muslim or not - in Islamic countries have their own distinct ways of politically organizing and attempting to deal with their problematic gender relations (whether or not it is expressed that way). I agree that it’s very important to take this into account, not least to avoid the classic liberal and conservative patronizing attitude of many Westerners in which they see Muslims as barbarians, despite (in the case of conservatives) perhaps having many similar views as traditionalist Salafists or Islamists, or despite their views being equally reactionary in general (liberal culture is, I’ll admit, far more emotionally and spiritually barren than Muslim spiritual culture).
yeh he beefed continuously with the more traditionalist religious establishment who were admitedly far less down than him for recognizing women as actual autonomous human beings because every school of traditional Islamic jurisprudence or theology is, by any material or abstractly ideological/theoretical estimation, deeply reactionary. His view as not very coherent imo but it was still based on elements of traditional Islam. It was not Islamist as he did not actual allow the full islamisation of the institutions of the state in a way that Islamists would want. Tbh I think it was a mix of genuine belief on his part that it was holding back the development of society, of a populist political maneuver, and the fact that he was ideologically a weird guy.
Islam is weird because it’s gone in so many different ways over the centuries. I check in on the various Islamic feminisms from time to time because the way they approach feminist issues is often very different from Western feminisms, and it’s interesting and challenging to see how other ideologies confront similar problems.
Sure. From a materialist perspective my first question is first and foremost whether actually existing movements are relatively progressive in their context, although this in no way should blind us to their problematic aspects that remain regardless. Otherwise the perspective is moralist in the pejorative sense.
Like for instance from an outside - and apparently normally from an inside - perspective it certainly looks like traditional schools of Islam leave very little leeway, theoretically speaking, for politically progressive views on questions of gender, sex and sexuality. Indeed the Qur’an itself is pretty clearly not a progressive text on these matters. By-the-bye I’m never going to be fond of any body of thought which does not seem to find slavery in and of itself repulsive (in fact allows it), especially if it claims to have on hand the ad-verbatim word of God, in which the main prophet (and ultimate moral standard) married (according to what is traditionally considered the most reliable of the Hadiths) an underage girl, and in which if anyone does not believe the revelation when presented to them then they will spend an eternity being tortured in hell (which might also happen for other at-first-glance minor offenses). Especially when the actual arguments given in the text for theistic belief are extremely weak, if there at all. Telling that to children (especially girls) in particular is child abuse imo, having been told similar things myself. For me it is clear that the regressive policies in many Islamic countries with respect to these questions are not simply reducible to the effects of, say, Western colonialism and imperialism, as I’ve sometimes heard people suggest. Of course at the end of the day I think these are mainly issues for the peoples of these societies, though I guess some people on this site might disagree, having seen their support for example for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
Saying this ofc has nothing to do with the immense richness of the many cultures where the people who make them up are predominantly (though not entirely) Islamic. Islamic philosophy for example is still very interesting in many ways, although much of it has relevance beyond the confines of Islam.
And of course women - feminists and otherwise, whether Muslim or not - in Islamic countries have their own distinct ways of politically organizing and attempting to deal with their problematic gender relations (whether or not it is expressed that way). I agree that it’s very important to take this into account, not least to avoid the classic liberal and conservative patronizing attitude of many Westerners in which they see Muslims as barbarians, despite (in the case of conservatives) perhaps having many similar views as traditionalist Salafists or Islamists, or despite their views being equally reactionary in general (liberal culture is, I’ll admit, far more emotionally and spiritually barren than Muslim spiritual culture).