- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
A federal judge has blocked the state of Hawaii from enforcing a recently enacted ban on firearms on its prized beaches and in other areas including banks, bars and parks, citing last year’s landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding gun rights.
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Apart from the “why do you need it” question, the beach is specifically a place people often leave items that can’t be taken in the water unattended. Sure, legislators can write laws about how a gun must not be left unattended and gun nuts can swear up and down about how they would never do that, but they will. No matter how much you think “there’s a lot of people around” or “I’ll just be in and out” or “I’ll watch my stuff from the water”, thefts happen, and now a mundane occurrence has turned a supposedly (not really) “safe” and “legal” gun into one of those dangerous “illegal” guns they can’t be held responsible for.
We were perfectly happy with our gun laws, and they worked, and now fringe nutcases and a politically captured courts are telling us we can’t implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
That’s the real issue, here. These guys are absolutely fucking terrified 100% of the time. They pack heat in order to feel like something besides a helpless babyman.
I have never even once felt like I couldn’t possibly pick up a head of lettuce and some yogurt from the supermarket without some moral support from a gun. It’s just fucking bizarre.
Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it’s the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn’t the same as living in terror.
Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there’s a good chance you don’t understand something important.
Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
Because they are too afraid to go to a grocery store without a gun. That means they’re really, really bad at risk assessment. And that makes them dangers to themselves and others.
I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it’s the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
Do you? Do you actually know that? Because your odds of being a shooting victim are way, way higher as a handgun owner than as a grocery shopper. You’re more likely to be hit by lightning than to be in a violent confrontation at the supermarket, and yet you don’t go around in a rubber suit to be “better safe than sorry.”
Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn’t the same as living in terror.
And yet you’re not wearing a rubber suit. Your risk aversion needs calibration if the gun that objectively makes you less safe makes you feel more safe.
Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there’s a good chance you don’t understand something important.
Or they could be members of the Westboro Baptist Church, and they are totally ridiculous.
For the record, I don’t think all gun owners are ridiculous - certainly not to the level of the WBC. I don’t even think people who feel the need to pack heat while going out for milk are ridiculous. But they’re definitely scared, and bad at assessing risks.
The other day I was at the grocery store and someone shouldered me and my cart out of the way when I was comparing cantaloupes. He looked at me funny like he was gonna start some shit so I blew him away. Motherfuckers not going to take me out without a fight. #alphamale #iamverybadass
There are a large number of people who carry, they’re not who you think they are and they’re not afraid or paranoid. Just like you put on your seatbelt and have a smoke detector and fire extinguisher in your home…they carry and think nothing of it.
The amount of white privilege shit shows how much propaganda you lot drink.
Ouch. Guess I touched a nerve. Look, carry if it makes you feel better, but statistically, you’re in more danger from your own guns than you are from anyone else. The same cannot be said for seat-belts, smoke detectors, and fire extinguishers.
In Canada almost nobody carries a gun.
We also rarely have shootings.
That is how it works in all civilised countries.
Same in the UK, we had a couple of school shootings and then collectively decided children’s safety isn’t worth trading for the freedom to own guns and that was that. There was very little pushback from any side of the asile.
You also have safety nets, which helps with your crime level. There is a lot more we here in the states could do to curb our violence overall that doesn’t require new gun laws, but a loud majority are idiots who just call everything that involves safety nets and reforming criminals socialism/communism.
No, it’s really nothing to do with safety nets and Canadians don’t have any better mental health then Americans.
We don’t open carry and we have strict handgun laws so we don’t have the amount of shootings as the states.
That’s it, that’s all.
There are a large number of people who carry, they’re not who you think they are and they’re not afraid or paranoid.
The fact that they do “carry” unequivocally shows that they are indeed afraid and paranoid, no matter how many times they say “not afraid, bro” out loud. Believe their actions, not their lying words.
How many times have you used your gun to resolve a situation that couldn’t have been solved without one? I legitimately don’t understand the mindset. What situation are people like you “preparing” for? Cause it honestly just seems like you’re afraid.
The same amount of times I’ve had to use my fire extinguisher in my home. Zero. And I hope that number stays that way forever.
I feel sorry for these people you describe, I can’t imagine living in such constant fear that I need to carry around a lethal weapon.
OP’s take makes me wonder: am I a badass for walking around completely unarmed and also not afraid?
My dad said the same thing. He carried a 357 on him. A man, he wasn’t scared… Well, that’s what he said, but in the end he was a racist baby that was afraid a poc was going to car jack him in his fucking chevy equinox. I don’t need a gun to defend myself, it’s getting there though with cult45, that’s a scary bunch of halfwits.
This dude is back with dumb takes.
What you should have said was nothing.
I’m not sure which is worse, someone who intentionally straps a deadly weapon to themselves in full view to be paraded around in public as a show of machismo, or someone who does so thoughtlessly as one would buckle a seatbelt.
we can’t implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
Do you honestly think that panic attacks by gun carriers is the blocker to reasonable gun laws? The number of people that carry firearms regularly is not statistically significant, let alone those with panic attacks.
I carry a concealed firearm because I think it’s important for at risk groups to be able to defend themselves. I don’t panic when I don’t carry, but I recognize that I’m less prepared to defend myself from assault.
It’s important to understand those you disagree with.
I can’t think of any at-risk group that has meaningful influence on gun legislation, but many of the groups propping up the Republican party have been convinced they are in mortal danger.
Though, frankly, I do find someone who thinks restrictions to carrying a gun at a beach in peaceful and multicultural Hawaii aren’t reasonable to be a bit of a nut regardless of whatever risks you have in your personal life.
Guns can absolutely be safe, and if they’re bringing it to the beach, it’s probably safe to assume it’s legal.
However, why the fuck anyone needs a gun at a beach is beyond me (or a grocery store, or library, or any number of other ridiculous places to bring a gun). America really needs to get their priorities straight, because it’s not really funny anymore, it’s scary.
Guns, by definition, are not safe. They’re literally made to kill people. You can take all the precautions in the world to mitigate the risks, of course, but the safest gun is the one that nobody can touch.
They’re made to kill, what they kill is up to the person holding it. They aren’t something people should be toting around at the beach, you take them hunting, or to a range.
As soon as a gun is introduced anywhere, safety automatically drops. That is a statistical fact.
Guns can’t be safe unless they’re unloaded or broken
And gun safety 101 teaches you a gun is always loaded.
and
What happened to respecting states rights? So sick of the judicial branch in the US, the most untethered and corrupt branch of them all. Which is saying a lot considering the state of the legislative branch.
Republicans only care about state’s rights when they can use state law to push one of their terrible policies at state level because they can’t force it nationally.
i.e. slavery
States’ rights only exists in the eyes of Conservatives if it’s related to owning other humans.
Republicans want all power consolidated at the level they can most effectively control. They were only ever about “states’ rights” because they typically are better at capturing state governments than national institutions.
It was never a thing, and the GOP has never given a shit about it.
Republicans have no political platform, but they do have a judicial agenda.
Ummmm, pretty sure the fucking bill of rights trumps state right ffs.
Until 15 years ago, there wasn’t an individual right to bear arms, so talking about “the Bill of Rights” really just means “the Conservative Supreme Court”.
The rights outlined in the Bill of Rights are natural rights and predate the document.
Hawaii is a colonial project and isn’t respected by the federal court circuits in the same manner that continental states are. It’s closer to Guam and Puerto Rico than other states in that it carries disproportionate financial and military burdens, including the effects from the Jones act for example.
I gotta say, my understanding of MLism is pretty spotty, but a Lemmygrad user opposing the Jones Act seems really weird.
Anti-Jones arguments are generally just raw-freetradeism – advocating to remove protectionist regulations so businesses can off-shore (literally off shore) their shipping to cheaper foreign crews, with the (supposed) benefit being that they will save money and then pass the savings on to the consumer. Were you a big NAFTA fan as well?
Prices in US territories such as Guam, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico are sky-high due to the Jones Act to protect American industries at the expense of colonized people. It’s more about the where the ship was built and who operates them than the workers themselves.
Yes, I am a big fan of NAFTA as well. The only parts I dislike are the parts that allow free movement of capital, disallow free movement of people, and protection of IP.
Wild. And the unions who argue against free-tradeism are the bad guys?
Labor is almost always the largest contributor to any business’s costs and offshoring it is very popular with capital, so waving away the 75% American crew requirement as “not about the workers” is wrong. From a DOT study, in 2010 an American crew costs 5x what a foreign crew does.
I live in Hawaii and while I don’t like paying more to subsidize US domestic shipbuilding (if the government wants to subsidize our shipyards, they should do it themselves), but when the major voices advocating for this (in Hawaii) are Republicans, libertarians, and business-oriented Democrats like Ed Case (one can argue those aren’t really three separate categories), I get wary. Because this sure looks like every other time capital wanted to stop having to pay so many expensive Americans with their benefits and labor protections when they could instead offload to foreign workers without any of that. And they pinky swear promise they’ll give us cheaper stuff in return rather than just pocketing the difference.
Your bad guy, good guy view of the world is myopic.
American labor vs International labor is a false dialectic that is used to pit working class against each other by the capital. You do realize that right? How is the Jones Act about the workers as you state when it doesn’t stipulate better working conditions, better pay, or ownership in the business itself? I don’t think you’re seriously arguing that the main reason for the price gouging that is happening in Hawaii is due to higher pay for American crew members, so I’ll ignore that.
In general, Marxists are internationalists and we don’t care about protecting American workers over other workers. I would be a syndicalist if I argued for the supremacy of the union.
You can talk all you want about an international brotherhood, but these are people’s livelihoods you’re dismissing as unimportant.
And requiring American labor IS stipulating working conditions, because there is a very real difference between the working conditions of Americans and foreign sailors. This sounds like all you ever engage in is theory, while capital favors foreign workers because they don’t have the same power (and expense) that American workers have.
Much of the American owned fishing fleet is entirely staffed by much cheaper foreign labor unable to leave their ships because their American company can get away with not applying for work visas. They didn’t just happen to end up with foreign crews effectively held captive during port calls, they do it because they’re cheaper and unable to easily challenge their bosses on conditions.
This isn’t a case of an open labor market where everyone is on an equal footing and Americans simply choose not to do this work. Americans simply can’t work for 70 cents an hour and bosses prize workers that don’t have worker protections and can’t demand more.
For many boat owners, the fishermen are a bargain: Bait and ice can cost more than crew salaries. Some of the foreign workers in Hawaii earn less than $5,000 for a full year. By contrast, the average pay for an American deckhand nationwide last year was $28,000, sometimes for jobs that last just a few months, according to government statistics. Experienced American crew members working in Alaska can make up to $80,000 a year.
An American crew has recourse and the force of law when an employer just refuses to pay their workers.
U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the Coast Guard routinely inspect the Hawaiian boats. At times, fishermen complain they’re not getting paid and officers say they tell owners to honor the contracts. But neither agency has any authority over actual wages.
When your labor solidarity philosophy leads you to support and defend the position of capital, a position known to depower workers and empower abuse, it feels like that’s the point where you should be thinking about what the whole point is.
So you are deliberately ignoring your previous point about how the main business cost and therefore the reason for the high prices in Hawaii is due to higher wages for American sailors. It’s curious how you weren’t actually arguing in good faith then.
You do realize that America as a country can simply change its regulation to stipulate equal pay and treatment for foreign crew members who dock in American ports or are employed by American companies, right? You are arguing that Americans and American companies are allowed to treat foreign workers under horrible conditions, so it is labor solidarity to employ only American workers. Do you see how deranged that sounds when we get down to the meat of it?
How big of a coward do you have to be to feel the need to bring a gun to the beach?
Have you met a conservative man lately? They’re scared of everything. Especially their own feelings
I think I know why… They’re criminals.
Pretty much only criminals have people trying to kill them everyday.
Maybe America just has a lot of criminals Maybe so many that it’s starting to show in our politics and democracy.
I wish this post wasn’t so believable. …it was supposed to be sarcasm.
Can I carry one into the court where the justices meet? Or is safety just something the “little people” need to work about?
Another awful law 6 years in the making, all thanks to people being too lazy to go out and vote.
We are going to be feeling the repercussions of that laziness for decades to come.
In today’s world, we can still see the results of Reaganomics and the terrible Reagan administration and what it did to this country some 4 decades later. Allowing Trump to enter the White House 6 years ago has, and will, continue to have a similar profound negative effect on the trajectory of this country for a long, long time.
You guys sure showed us!
Lazy?
Have you forgotten about the gerrymandering and voter suppression that’s been going on?
Riiiight, always with the excuses. Most of those fall flat when you consider HALF the registered voters can’t be bothered to go vote on election day on most elections. Even in heavily trafficked ones, turnout rarely breaks 60 or 70%. Not saying voter suppression or gerrymandering doesn’t exist, but neither of those would swing an election if we had enough people voting. The excuses have long since gotten old.
Gerrymandering is half the reason people don’t vote. If an election isn’t competitive and there’s significant roadblocks put in your way, you might not vote either. Imagine having two jobs and kids and a long ass line at a voting precinct that isn’t within walking distance.
People like that person would rather hate and feel morally superior than spend 5 minutes understanding the reasons.
Lazy idiots like you rather come up with excuses than actually go do what you should be doing. You’re the typical “lazy American” stereotype that fascists count on to get into power. Congrats asswipe.
Lazy idiots like you rather come up with excuses than actually go do what you should be doing. You’re the typical “lazy American” stereotype that fascists count on to get into power. Congrats asswipe.
So I guess your voter outreach is nil then.
Keep it up, I’m sure it’ll work out great for you and the causes you champion.
citation needed on the first sentence
Instead of just flat out hating on them and calling them lazy, maybe do some research into why there are so many non-voters.
And yes, suppression IS a big enough reason to. Who the fuck on an hourly wage has the luxury of driving/transiting to a distant poll station and wait in line for 9+ hours to vote?
But hey, if it makes you feel better to dunk on them as “Lazy”, keep at it, that’s sure to convince them /s
Edit: Forgot to mention that you assume all these non-voters would vote for your party. Based on research, a very sizable portion would not.
That site didn’t give much info. It says they are hard working people who are underexposed to political info and don’t feel they can decide. Besides that making them fucking morons (sorry), that still doesn’t excuse their inaction.
That site didn’t give much info.
I’m guessing you only looked at the summary then.
It says they are hard working people who are underexposed to political info and don’t feel they can decide.
That’s not what it said.
Besides that making them fucking morons (sorry), that still doesn’t excuse their inaction.
There’s plenty of data there that explains their inaction. Your refusal to read it doesn’t make you right.
It all comes down to giving people a reason they can understand to take the time to vote.
Again, asking an hourly wage worker that can barely make ends meet already to travel/transit and then wait 9+ hours in line to vote is completely unrealistic and not something they should be blamed for.
But hey, like the other guy, keep calling them fucking morons, I’m sure it’ll work out great. /s
Pull your head out of your ass.
Remember how a lot of ML communities on Reddit (now on Lemmy) were banning people from their subreddits for saying to vote Biden
ML? I don’t know what that stands for, but I did see the absurdity of Bernie and so-called progressive subs that were trying to convince people that a vote for Trump would further Bernie’s agenda more than a vote for Hillary. They also were trying to convince people to “stick it to the DNC” and simply sit out the vote.
So the foreign agents running those subs were trying to flip some votes and push voter apathy onto others. Doesn’t take much to change an election and the stuff I saw was clearly just a teeny, tiny part of their larger misinformation campaign. A few key votes here or there and that would easily explain Trump’s victory.
There is no way this stuff isn’t happening on Lemmy now. In fact, I guarantee it is.
Damn, the US annexation of Hawai’i continues to hurt their nation :-(
I hope one day they can win their freedom back.
Why do they defend so hard for like the one weird out of 1000 who openly waves a gun around that makes everyone extremely uncomfortable. People around open carriers don’t think “wow freedom!”, they get super fucking uncomfortable.
Because that one out of a thousand is also the noisiest person at their local officials office
Why the fuck does anyone need a gun on the beach? I can’t think of one justifiable argument for needing one there.
Land sharks
Hmm. Fair point.
Your right, damn sandsharks.
But, what if someone sees an undesirable, having a good time, and simply wants to exercise their god-given right to harass them without fear of consequences?
How do you stand your ground at them without this most basic thing?
It’s really sad that a lot of Americans think that’s an actual valid argument.
Isn’t it? I got sad writing it.
My alternative was to point out that some sharks are black and there are cops on the beaches but I felt this line does a better job. Slightly more relevant.
It’s not a valid argument, because frankly both harassment and brandishing a firearm are both illegal everywhere in the USA, which means there actually is consequences.
Brandishing a firearm? Cops will shrug and say if you weren’t shot, there’s no issue and laugh at you.
A well tanned Militia, being necessary to the security of a free Shore, the right of the beachgoers to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Best comment I’ve read on lemmy yet.
lol This one made me laugh.
🤣
Well duh how else are you going to protect yourself from all the other armed people on the beach?
And like, what about sandcrabs?
Seagulls
I guess. They are rats of the sky.
Because they’re constantly pants shittingly terrified of anything they don’t understand and need a gun to feel anything other than the constant overwhelming feeling of cowardice in the face of normal life.
Good point.
To fight the dangerous riptide?
Yea, but do you think most people know that you have to shoot perpendicular to the rip tide and not parallel to kill it?
Beach moose.
“Beach moose! Everybody run for cover! I’ll take care of this!” and then I just started blastin’…
The law in question prohibits licensed carry of firearms from a list of areas and premises, it does not only ban guns on beaches.
posted by @[email protected]
It’s like that Taylor Swift song goes: “It’s like guns on the beach, weird but fuckin beau-POP POP POP POP”.
It’s an American classic.
If they can’t ban guns, they should ban conservatives instead. Problem solved.
Friendly Reminder: It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on political affiliation. Do your part to help fight conservatism by excluding conservatives in your daily life. It is not appropriate to conduct business or keep relationships with such people.
what about the liberal gun owners?
Good luck finding a liberal gun owner who is bringing it to a beach…
Until guns are used to remove corrupt SC justices nothing will change. But obviously I would never advocate for violence lol. Even though it would work.
look just cuz they have a life sentence doesn’t mean we can start killing each other’s politicians. we need that do-nothing POS controlled opposition party to expand the court
USA: Has major gun violence problem.
US legal system: yEw cANt tAYKE thUR fReeDUMB
“Who needs guns on the beach”
I’m trans. Id sooner never go. But if I had to, with the way things are going, you bet your ass I am afraid and would rather be armed
As a trans person, would you rather go to a beach where nobody is armed, or to a beach where everybody might be armed?
I’m not trans, but I’d rather go where everyone might be armed. Just because everyone is supposed to not bring a gun somewhere doesn’t mean there won’t be someone that does- how many shootings in the US happen in “gun free zones”?
Only in the US. When I go to the beach in my country, Australia, I’d never even consider the possibility of a gunman.
I’ll foolishly assume this is a comment posted by a human in good faith and not a troll or a bot.
Does fog of war mean anything to you? Go to a crowded place where everyone is armed. Person 1 is a baddie and kills person 2. Person 3 is a Good Guy and shoots person 1. People 4, 5, and 6 are also Good Guys With Guns and didn’t directly observe the original altercation, they only observed Person 3 shooting Person 1, and assume Person 3 shot Person 2 as well. People 4, 5, and 6, open fire on Person 3. They are bad shots though and the adrenaline dump makes them miss, so People 7, 8, and 9 get shot in the crossfire. At this point it is total chaos, everyone is either shooting at everyone else (fight), running in panic (flight), getting shot in the crossfire (freeze), or just shrieking their head off at the carnage in front of them (freak).
Congratufuckinglations, we now have a bunch of bodies and dozens of traumatized people because you morons couldn’t leave your fucking guns at home and enjoy the goddamn beach.
I hate this country so much sometimes.
Yes! The only way America will solve the gun problem is if we keep escalating the problem to a critical point. You’re doing god’s work. Thank you.
Instead of strapping up, I simply don’t go to beaches where I’m afraid to be shot. There’s more than 1 beach.
just don’t go anywhere you’re likely to be shot. Like school, work, the grocery store, church, urban areas, suburban areas, rural areas, bars, restaurants, nightclubs, daycare centers…
Without even addressing the moral panic and domestic terrorism currently being whipped up against trans people the fact is that “just don’t go places where people are allowed to carry” is a bad solution even for the average person.
Hell yes. Make guns a nonpartisan “nonissue.” Armed minorities are harder to oppress, and gun control disproportionately affects minorities in marginalized and overpoliced communities. One state just removed the requirement for pistol purchase permits because (as it was designed to be in the first place since it was a Jim Crow era law) racist sheriffs were denying black people’s permits, 60% of denials were to black people.
Yeah, famously, the US doesn’t oppress minorities because of all the guns.
There’s a reason California has so much gun control, and it is Ronald Reagan being racist in the 80’s because the Black Panthers were exercising their right to bare arms, because it was making it harder for the police to oppress them. In fact CCW and purchase permits were designed and are often still used as a way to keep POC from exercising their rights, as it makes them harder to oppress if they can carry. They use gun control to oppress those minorities, things like stop and frisk, or denying permits and charging them when they carry anyway. They enforce this gun control primarily in overpoliced marginalized minority neighborhoods, not in gated communities or majority white neighborhoods. Regardless of your intentions or perceptions, the real life effects of gun control are these, and it is harder to oppress a person/community/people who have guns than one who does not.
While Reagan was racist and was responsible for a lot of bad shit in the '80s, what you’re talking about with the Panthers was in the late '60s.
Girlfreddy was quick with it! But yeah, that.
@sin_free_for_00_days @ArcaneSlime
Reagan was governor of CA in the 60’s. And he never changed his ways.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-control-rights-restrictions-black-panthers-reagan-11663703535
That’s because, famously, gun control in the US targets minorities.
Do you think that is only a coincidence?
Armed minorities are harder to oppress:
The law in question prohibits licensed carry of firearms from a list of areas and premises, it does not only ban guns on beaches.
Hang on… There is unlicensed carry that might be banned specifically on beaches? Isn’t unlicensed carry in general like… Illegal or something?
Yeah ok thats kinda ok.
I think the headline is misleading is all. The law in question deals only with persons who have a license to carry. If a person does not have a license to carry, it remains illegal for them to bring guns to the beach.
That Supreme Court case was a ridiculous rewriting of historical facts.
That can apply to just about every case the Supreme Joke have given the last few years
The Second Amendment is all about having arms and arms training so that men are generally ready to join a war, specifically against the English. It was never about walking around with a gun for “self-defense.” Also, bullets weren’t even invented yet, so they really had no idea at all about modern guns.
