• originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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    2 months ago

    lack of local accounting means its no longer your operating system, youre now using a perpetually required service from microsoft.

    the walled garden is putting the last bricks in place. hope all you windows fans are …happy… asking apple microsoft for permission to use your own hardware.

      • Onihikage@beehaw.org
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        2 months ago

        I switched to Bazzite not long after the Recall AI announcement, shrinking my Windows partition to leave it for just VR stuff which currently doesn’t work well outside of Windows, at least on my system. It’s pretty great! Not perfect, but the problems I have on Bazzite are similar enough in quantity and degree to problems I had on Windows that I’ve basically switched out one set of weird OS quirks for another. The big difference is now I don’t have to think about the OS being disrespectful corporate spyware.

          • Onihikage@beehaw.org
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            2 months ago

            Not that I know of; Bazzite is completely based on Fedora Atomic Desktops, which are an immutable type of distro that makes the core OS a read-only image that all gets updated separately from system apps. The Ubuntu equivalent of Fedora Atomic Desktops is Ubuntu Core, but I don’t know if Bazzite has a Ubuntu Core-based equivalent. Bazzite is released by a group called Universal Blue, which makes prepackaged OS builds based on Fedora Atomic Desktops, with particular focus areas. Bazzite focuses on including all gaming-related tweaks, apps, configs, and optimizations out of the box, Aurora focuses on general desktop PC functionality, and Bluefin focuses on productivity, but in the end they’re all Atomic/Immutable distros based on Fedora. It’s worth poking through it all and picking one that best suits your needs.

            • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              What parts of the immutable OS are read only? Like filesystem wise? I’m not sure I really get it.

              • Blisterexe@lemmy.zip
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                2 months ago

                The basic of immutable desktops is that every system file (what’s outside your home directory (folder) ) is readonly, you can install apps through the app store.

                But I’d say Linux mint (a Non-immutable) distro is what you should try first, because it’s more user-friendly and easier to get help for.

                • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  Oh I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years. That’s not an issue.

                  I have a better idea now of what an immutable distro is thanks to your explanation. I don’t know if that’s what I would want after all.

                  I think I prefer the freedom of being able to modify my system files and configs as I need to customize my system as I see fit, even if it meansb potentially breaking something.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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      2 months ago

      hope all you windows fans are …happy… asking apple microsoft for permission to use your own hardware.

      It’s been this way for decades, really. Apple, Google, MS, etc. Even if they let you use it without an account, they’ll literally never stop pressuring you and annoying you into signing into an account.

      • psvrh@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        Apple doesn’t actually make it at all difficult to use a Mac or iOS device without an Apple account. You’re asked once during setup and that’s it. At most there’ll be a red dot in Settings>iCloud.

        • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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          2 months ago

          They do, actually. There’s a bunch of first party software you can’t remove, perpetual notifications you can’t clear about setting up iCloud, etc.

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            2 months ago

            There’s one notice, and it’s in the System Settings app. And it’s a little red dot beside the iCloud section. That’s not really the same league as what Microsoft is doing, or Even Google’s nag to use Chrome across all their Web properties.

            You’re right about the first-party apps that you can’t remove, but it’s also not the same as, eg, Edge where those apps are used constantly and your preferences are reset on every update.

            On my Mac I set my browser to Firefox in 2018. It’s never reverted to Safari, not once, where Windows really wants me to use Edge and goes so far as to not just reset it periodically, but also direct start menu searches and in-app web links to an ms-edge: url instead of using the http handler.

            Apple has problems, but this isn’t one of them.

            • helenslunch@feddit.nl
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              2 months ago

              That’s not really the same league as what Microsoft is doing

              I didn’t say it was. It is intentionally and perpetually annoying, nonetheless.

        • Auzy@beehaw.org
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          2 months ago

          You can’t use a lot of apps without it

          So sure you can, but it isn’t an awesome experience

      • tektite@slrpnk.net
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        2 months ago

        But apparently you DO need an Apple ID to access an Apple Notes file that was shared to your Android by your crazy ex who doesn’t know that without an iPhone you won’t be able to read their undoubtedly unhinged, rambling guilt trip. Thanks Apple!

        • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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          2 months ago

          Sure it could, but I think Apple makes so much on overcharging for the machine itself they don’t need to be so aggressive over data collection just logically.

          • tabular@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Sadly I think they have to aim to do both, to make the most money as a publically traded company.

            Last I heard Apple was protecting it’s users from Facebook collecting their data… by being the ones who collect it instead. Maybe that not quite right as I don’t listen to news on Apple (outside of their opposition to right to repair).

    • toastal@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      We would have that freedom with Android too if those stupid banking apps stopped trying to dictate what you can run on your hardware & Google giving them more features to do so.

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    2 months ago

    I love how there is an entire group of people who think it’s perfectly normal to “fight” the company that makes the OS they use.

    (This message brought to you by the Linux gang.)

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            2 months ago

            In my company, people were shocked at the hint I might change their Windows to Linux on a whim. They’re all so attached to Windows.

            And I was joking!

            • hellofriend@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Tbh I see this as a problem. For instance, I’ve been considering going into politics and one of my main concerns is the security of our government’s information. Right now the Americans could have a direct line of access to all of our doings simply because we use Windows. Not to mention there’s the matter of Recall which, while not implemented in Windows 10, will likely be included when the government switches from Windows 10. That itself is a huge security risk. So the only options are to implement an existing Linux distro or to fork and maintain one specifically for the government. And that would be all well and good if it didn’t require retraining every government employee to use Linux.

    • Redex@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Yeah but on the other hand you also have to wrestle with Linux a lot, and personally usually a lot more time wise. It’s all tradeoffs and what people care more about.

      • bamfic@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        true, but you’re not fighting malice or greed, you’re fighting laziness and arrogance. diffeeent vibe.

      • Wave@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        This is a common misconception. You didn’t come out of the womb knowing how to use Android, iOS or Windows. To that same capacity you didn’t come out knowing how to use Linux either. It has the same learning curve any other OS would. It’s a sunk cost fallacy.

        • hellofriend@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’m not entirely certain about that. For instance, on Linux I always have to look up how to create symlinks even though I’ve been using the OS exclusively for three years. On Windows, it is: Right click -> Create shortcut. It’s easier for most people to remember a 2 action process than a console command with multiple options and specific syntax. But of course, this is only one example and doesn’t apply to everything. For instance, I have absolutely no trouble remembering mkdir, cp, or rm. I think it’s a bit of a mixed bag.

        • Redex@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          To some extent that is true. But on the other hand, Windows is both usually easier to learn (has a UI for 99% of stuff, basic design principles dictate that it’s much easier to remember what to click on than what to type), and it just works. I rarely have to interact with the OS in any way to get something to work. I’ve tried multiple times to switch to Linux, but it just has so much stuff that doesn’t work out of the box, or at all. Da Vinci Resolve has a native version which is completely broken, Dota 2 has a native version but doesn’t pre compile shaders, so whenever e.g. I open a new hero in the hero list it lags for 1-2s, many games with anti cheat don’t work, good luck with anything in VR, no popular distro that I’ve seen has a clipboard and the ones I found online are just worse than the Windows one, etc.

          I want to switch, I really do, but I’m already a power user on Windows, I would have to learn a lot to be on the same level on Linux, add onto that the fact that a lot of stuf that’s important to me just doesn’t work properly on Linux, it just doesn’t make sense for me, and for most people they’re gonna be a lot less willing to switch. Most people will not bother trying to change something, even if it’s objectively better. Most people just want to stick with what already works for them, and until Linux is able to just work with no need for user intervention, especially through terminals which people fear, it’s still a long way from mainstream adoption.

    • bl4kers@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      If people didn’t do this it would happen faster. Not everyone has the luxury of immediately switching, just like the “move to another state” argument

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    2 months ago

    Wouldn’t it be possible to buy a new PC, open the box, and return it right after because you cannot set it up without internet?

    If enough people do it, may be PC manufacturers will force Microsoft to add offline setups.

    • SecureTacoA
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      2 months ago

      Funny you say that, setting it up without internet is one of the few ways left to still be able to create a local account.

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        2 months ago

        If I understand correctly from the article, you have to enter ‘OOBE\BYPASSNRO’ in command prompt during installation to prevent it from asking to connect to internet. If that’s the only way to set up a local account, that’s hardly an accessible option.

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        2 months ago

        There’s no clear path from getting the computer out of the box just setting it up without internet. If you call the manufacturer and they know what the hell they’re doing they’ll walk you through doing the OOBE no internet fix. It just needs to be an option in the damn operating system. The fact that they’re hiding it from you is unconscionable.

      • Mio@feddit.nu
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        2 months ago

        It was not an option one week ago when i tested it. Maybe because I was in WiFi range and Microsoft assumed you have to know the password to at least one of them to pass the wifi screen. No skip button. But could create a new account as unverified using gmail address.

    • Wave@lemmy.ml
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      2 months ago

      Louis Rossman type energy. I like it let’s do it. Windows refund day 2 baby

  • entropicshart@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    I’ve been debating for a while to switch windows to Linux and see how well it works for my games, thanks Microsoft for finally pushing me to do it!

    Only thing keeping me on windows has been games (all other development use is far easier on Linux); but with the work that happened with Steam Deck, many games are now fully functional on Linux.

    • fernandocarletti@lemmy.eco.br
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      2 months ago

      Depending on what games you are playing, it should be a breeze. I ditched my windows installation last march and no regrets so far. Most of the games I enjoy run OOB in Linux, but some that I played occasionally are not supported, so I just live without them.

    • sylver_dragon@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Did the same. The writing has been on the wall for a long time, Microsoft’s anti-user behavior is only set to get worse. I made the jump to Linux (Arch) and things have been reasonably smooth. I did have a few issues with Enshrouded, but was able to get past those with Proton-GE. The only issue I haven’t worked around yet is Roblox with the kids. But, I may just have to pick up a cheap tablet for that.

      • oo1@lemmings.world
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        2 months ago

        Does emulating via waydroid not work for android games? I don’t really do android games so not sure how well waydroid performs for that type of stuff - but it seems okay for a few android apps i’ve tried.

        • Bilb!@lem.monster
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          2 months ago

          The last time I tried that getting google play services working was a long, annoying process and did not work. I don’t expect google to make any of that easy for us.

          • oo1@lemmings.world
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            2 months ago

            fair point, i’m very used to just using f-droid, aurora, or sideloading apks from dubious places, for my phone and tablet, that i completely forget how much android stuff “needs” google services.

            I got netflix running without google play, i think installed from aurora store. It needed a script to install widevide DRM that seemed to work.

            But I can imagine things like games being more of a pain especially with online.

        • sylver_dragon@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          That is a possibility. To be honest, I haven’t tried very hard yet. I’m currently working on spinning up a Win10 VM in KVM and I’ll see how that works. And Android emulator is another good idea, I’ll have to give that a go.

    • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      For me, working in IT, two things are keeping me on Windows:

      • games
      • IT tools only made for Windows.

      Most remote access stuff is entirely Windows based. Sure, there’s clients so you can connect to Linux, Mac, whatever, from the admin console, but the plugins and whatnot that actually show you the remote users desktop are almost entirely Windows exclusive. There’s sometimes a Mac option, but almost never a Linux option.

      Using something that’s more common/public, like TeamViewer isn’t really an option. There’s a plethora of business focused RMM tools that are just web apps with Windows plugins for all the heavy lifting.

      The part that gets me, is that any of these tools which allow for self hosting, can have the server and client side on Linux, but the IT team doing the work only gets Windows as an option for the remote control tools.

      Infuriating.

      • toastal@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        Why do IT teams think being able to snoop any users screen is a good thing? Leave folks alone. Get authorized key consent to SSH into their box iff necessary.

        This is why I only work with BYOD operations…

        • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          There’s a lot of trust required in IT. You must be a trustworthy person. Being fired for a trust related reason is basically a death sentence for an IT career. That being said, none of the tools I typically work with will provide previews of a user’s screen, or such previews will be low enough resolution that reading what is on screen is basically impossible.

          When we connect to a system and get a full resolution image of what’s going on, pretty much always there’s some on screen indication of us being connected.

          IMO, this is how it should be.

          The only time I’ve actively tried to “spy” on a user’s activity, has been when requested to do so by a manager/owner, usually when pursuing an allegation of inappropriate use of a work computer. Even then it’s been very rare, and I can only recall one such instance of it happening at all.

          As an IT person, I will say, I could care less what you do with the equipment. I’m busy enough, I don’t need to fill my day with watching you do your job. Yes, we have tools which can allow us to eavesdrop on everything you do, I don’t touch them unless I absolutely must, usually only if I’ve been ordered to.

          Another poster pointed out that work resources do not belong to you and legally, they’re right. The system, including all data and work contained therein is legally the property of your employer. This includes your email and any correspondence, and anything else that work provides as a function of your employment. If you create an excel work sheet that does some data processing for you, or reformats information in a better way, during work hours, that sheet isn’t yours. The ownership of the sheet is your employer. Though you did the work in creating it, your employer owns it because they paid you for the time/effort to do so.

          Personally, I do whatever I can to avoid interacting with users unique files. I recently refused to work on someone’s personal iPhone because it contained personal data. Though their work email was probably present on the device, I didn’t want to touch it. I did however, provide instructions for them to do what they were asking themselves.

          When interacting with work-owned systems, I’ll modify the registry, and run command line commands without the users knowledge, in an effort to reduce the disruption to their workflow, while solving an issue. Generally this is when I have a request from that user, or the company, to get something done, such as install a piece of software. You’ll be working away and poof, new software appears.

          Anyone in IT unnecessarily snooping in on your files, can be fired with cause, ruining their career, if they’re caught.

          We have access to everything, and I mean everything, in an organization. Your email, files, databases, software… Partly for troubleshooting, and partly for performing backups. If we don’t directly have access, typically we have permission to grant access, so we can grant ourselves permission to access whatever we need to. This means that IT is one of the highest trust areas of the business. We can read the CEO’s emails, send mail as anyone, access everyone’s files, and delete all data on everything in such a way that it is impossible to recover. We need the access to do our jobs and violating the trust we have with that access, is unforgivable and a career-ending event.

          I will say that I have not met any IT professionals who will snoop, spy, eavesdrop, or otherwise examine what you do or what data you have or interact with, without a good reason. If it happens, it’s likely that someone else, such as a manager, has requested that we do. We are merely the middleman in that scenario. Bluntly, we’re too busy than to just do it for kicks.

          If any IT professional has violated trust, I would report it to management. It is grossly inappropriate to access a user’s system without just cause.

          As for notifications, that varies depending on the request. I typically only inform people when I need to remotely control their desktop (interrupting their work) and I’m generally very receptive to being asked to wait before connecting so any sensitive information can be dealt with and closed before the session is established. I have no issue with that. I don’t need, nor want to know any more than I do. I’m never looking for illicit or illegal things unless they are creating a problem (excessive bandwidth use, excessive disk use, etc). For the most part, I try to stay in my lane. I’m here to help, not spy on you to get you fired.

          • toastal@lemmy.ml
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            2 months ago

            Thanks for confirming some of my suspicions about how it all actually operates & the reasons for doing so.

            I really just don’t like this in principle as it is way too easy to accidentally do private stuff out of convenience on a machine which is why I do like I said with BYOD & will be present for all attempts to troubleshoot a device. I don’t really see a conceptual different in my digital desktop vs. my physical one & I wouldn’t let an employer install a camera at my desk just as much or would I think it is cool for a business to have cameras in the bathroom just because they own the rental agreement. It feels like there should be some form of privacy even in these digital scenarios that never happens & it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Is there a solution to allowing users privacy in their system or is it only considered fully private property?

            • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              Legally, it’s fully owned by the company.

              My current workplace uses mostly cloud desktops. Basically, even if you’re using a personal system, you install a remote desktop client software (it provides access to another system, it does not allow access to your system), which is used to connect to a server farm of virtual desktop servers. So the work desktop you use kind of overlays itself on your system. Your system is still there, humming away in the background, with it’s only task being to shuffle your input up to the cloud, and bring down the images of your cloud desktop and display them.

              There’s some other features, but that’s the core of it. We use a third party “remote monitoring and management” (RMM) tool to administrate company owned systems. You are perfectly capable of using the remote desktop client on a system that’s not company owned. I like this model, since you can minimize or close the remote desktop at any time, and since we (the IT team) have full access to the remote desktop server farm, we can connect to your remote desktop session and see what you see, but only what’s within the remote window. We can’t escape it to see your computer. So if you have a problem with your work stuff, we have access to that. If you have a problem with your personal computer, we need to use a one-time-use (or ad-hoc) remote connection software like LogMeIn or something similar (specifically the LMI rescue type feature set). Once we disconnect from your personal system after doing whatever troubleshooting you asked for, we lose access to that system.

              The programs change, but they do the same thing in concept. There are a number of company owned laptops and desktops we have our RMM tools on which allow us to dive into a system whenever we want.

              I run a homelab, personally, and when my workplace does not give me the necessary stuff to be productive from home, what I do is build a small virtual system on my home lab, which I remote into when I work (from my desktop), so I can maintain a work/personal division. It’s similar to the cloud system I’m doing at my current job, but the “remote” desktop is a VM on a server in my basement. Other times I’ve been given a laptop, and I’ll set it up in a corner and turn on its built in remote desktop service (to allow remote desktop connections into it), then use the same protocols to connect to my work laptop.

              When I’m done work, I just shut down the remote desktop connection and poof, back to my stuff on my PC.

              With my current job I went another way, I got a KVM switch, which allows me to switch between two physical computers at the push of a button. (KVM is keyboard/video/mouse) When I’m done work now, I push a button and my screens (I have several) and KB/mouse all switch back to my personal desktop. Same idea but different.

              I couldn’t imagine using my personal computer to do work stuff directly. That’s just not kosher in my mind. I have work’s RMM and tools all installed on the system I use for work, and my personal system is entirely free of such things.

              I also want to include a short story. Recently a client started a ticket about our company logo being on their personal computer. I grabbed that ticket up and immediately identified the system, and removed it from our system. I followed up with the user to verify that by removing it from our system, the icon disappeared (indicating our monitor agent was fully uninstalled), they confirmed, and I closed the ticket. I kept thinking it’s grossly inappropriate for our software to be on their personal system, and I wanted to get it fixed ASAP. Not everyone is the same, I’ve known users that want or e remote management tools on their personal systems. I don’t understand it, but I can’t tell them that it can’t be there either (the customer is always right, applies in this context).

              As I hope I’ve demonstrated, neither myself, nor anyone I work with, nor anyone I’ve worked with in the past, would ever take such an opportunity to snoop or spy on them, but I’d rather not have that liability hanging over my company. All it takes is for one person to have the software on there and accuse us of stealing their private data (say, leud pictures) and publically posting that information on the internet, and I’m sure the policy would change. Of course, we wouldn’t do that, but all it would take is the accusation.

              It’s a bad day for us when we see something we shouldn’t, especially if upon seeing it, we’re morally obligated to contact the authorities (in the case of illegal content such as child porn). If course, if something like that is observed by a tech, we must do something about it, but we don’t want to have to get involved in that sort of thing, so we’re pretty careful about it. To put it simply, we’re not looking for anything, and we don’t want to snoop through your stuff, because if we do and we find something we shouldn’t, there’s going to be hell to pay. Not only in the fact that now we need to report it to the police, but also that we need to be able to justify why we were able to see it in the first place. If we can’t justify why we were looking at the content, that’s probably grounds for termination and getting blacklisted from IT, even if it had a positive result (like a pedo being sent to jail).

              Bluntly, it’s not worth the risk, paperwork, or inevitable trouble that we’ll face if we do.

              Keeping a good separation between personal and work minimizes the risk of IT seeing something that shouldn’t, even if it’s not illegal/illicit. Even your personal financial information. I don’t want to know. I had a call recently with a user who couldn’t log into their bank, and through testing, I was on the lookout for errors while they logged in. As soon as login was successful and their accounts were up, I minimized my remote control so I didn’t see more than I absolutely had to, of their bank info. I got them into the accounts. I don’t care what the accounts are, or what is in them. It seems minor, but that is that users personal information which I do not need to know. I solved their login problem with the site, so I’m done.

              I probably have a hundred of other examples, even some where my co-workers had to contact authorities, I’m pretty sure… Every decent IT tech knows that this is a risk and we do what we can to avoid getting caught up in it. We don’t want to have to answer those questions.

              If you ever have IT connect to your computer and your background goes black, there’s a reason. At first it was bandwidth related, and we’ll still say that as the reason, but a large reason why we still do it, even into an age of high speed internet, is because a lot of people put pictures of their family, friends, sometimes even inappropriate content, as their desktop wallpaper. It’s hard to miss when it’s your wallpaper. So if it’s blacked out when we connect, that’s one less possible problem we have to deal with.

              I’ll stop, but if you have questions for a random internet IT guy, please feel free to ask.

              Take care.

              • toastal@lemmy.ml
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                2 months ago

                That I could prefer: using a remote VM for the work & being able to opt out of a company provisioned device if possibre. It’s much easier to not pollute a VM & you will want to disable it as soon as you are done anyhow to free up local resources/connections.

    • Pumpkin Escobar@lemmy.world
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      Most steam games just work. Make sure to go to settings and compatibility and let it use compatibility for all games. Look at something like bottles for a front-end to let you set up and use wine / proton for other launchers, etc….

      • BReel@lemmy.one
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        You can also use Steam itself to run external launchers via proton! Might not be the best way, but it was super easy for a noob like me to figure out.

        Let’s me play ffxiv (non steam) and bnet games quite easily!

        • hellofriend@lemmy.world
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          In order to get my copy of Cyberpunk (GOG) working I ended up running GOG Galaxy via Steam and launching the game from it. Possibly the most ape brained solution to that problem, but if it works it works lol

    • dinckel@lemmy.world
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      I have yet to find even one game, from the stuff i play, that doesn’t work as well, or better. Obvious exceptions include games with a client anticheat though

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        2 months ago

        Was a bitch for me to get HOMM3 set up. But in the end I got it working. Would certainly be more plug n play on Windows, but I don’t mind a little inconvenience if it means I’m not supporting from fuckass tech bro that wants my data.

  • REdOG@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Use shift f10 and edit the registry… They aren’t disabling that until they have a better solution for autopilot.

    May not work for home editions…

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      Tried that on the last install i had to do. Doesnt always anymore. Task manager was hidden by the setup a few times when i did that :(

      I ended up using rufus to patch iso pre-extraction hehe :)

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    On a new install, before powering up, make sure you don’t start it up with Ethernet plugged in, when you get to the Wi-Fi connection stage hit Ctrl+f10

    Type in

    oobe\bypassnro

    And press enter. The computer will restart and now when you get to the Wi-Fi connection screen you’ll have a like that says “I don’t have internet”.

          • toastal@lemmy.ml
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            Always online with kernel-level anti-cheat has a tendency to not work, but that is probably a red flag since there are thousands of different games you can play that don’t snoop around ring-0

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            It’s not a simple one to one. Everyone’s use case and experience is different. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in on the FOSS train and I don’t approve of Microsoft’s direction with Windows but it’s still a consistently hassle-free experience compared to Linux for people who just don’t wanna deal with distros, terminals, repositories or compatibility layers.

        • Wave@lemmy.ml
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          2 months ago

          Try emailing manufacturers and asking if they already have support, if they dont request that they start or you won’t consider their parts for your next build. Your wallet is a powerful tool that can cause companies to bend to your will if you know how to use it.

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        2 months ago

        Unless I missed something, the article states as follows

        Another method of bypassing the account lockdown still exists. You simply have to enter OOBE\BYPASSNRO in the command prompt during the Windows 11 setup process, which allows you to skip the connection to the Internet and thus also the link to a Microsoft account.

        • Katzastrophe@feddit.de
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          Tried that a few months ago with a factory new machine and it did not work. Though it might work on Pro machines

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            You just need quotes on it, ms fucked up the directory traversal “oobe/bypassnro.cmd” worked for me setting up a user machine yesterday

          • A Mouse@midwest.social
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            2 months ago

            That’s interesting! I wonder if they are locking down factory installations.

            About a month ago I was able to do it with a fresh install of Pro in a VM, I’ll do a quick test and see if it works on Home…and it works too. I had to disconnect the network and then run the OOBE\BYPASSNRO command, it rebooted and gave me the continue without network and limited setup options.

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              2 months ago

              That’s super weird, but disconnecting the network is the only way that you can reliably setup the machine without an account in my experience

          • BigDev@lemmy.world
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            I had to refresh a pc with Windows 11 recently (unfortunately) and I can confirm it works, but I found it only works on a completely clean install, and you have to run the command IMMEDIATELY when starting setup. I had to re-install twice, because the first time I connected to Wi-Fi, and even running the command and disabling wifi, it still demanded an account. I had to wipe the drive an install a second time, then run the command right at the start of the setup process, before doing anything. THEN it let me skip connecting to internet and logging into an account.

    • Codilingus@sh.itjust.works
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      Just burn the ISO to a USB drive with Rufus, a window full of options with check boxes will pop up, with a lot of options to turn installation bullshit.

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    I’m assuming one would still be able to switch to a local account after installation, but you really shouldn’t need to. What a shit show.

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    Back in the day, using Windows was essentially a long series of fucking around with configurations and trying different workarounds to get things to “go”. The actual using of the computer was, in a way, secondary.

    Nothing has changed. Many many years ago I bought a used Apple to try it out and was just - astounded at how little I needed to mess with things to get them to do what I wanted. It was all in settings. That’s it.

    Watching Microsoft leap headfirst into full evil is just like watching the seasons change.

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      So you’ve obviously never had to use defaults write com.apple.stupidpreference.fix bool true

      Apple has a lot less nonsense than Microsoft, but the amount of nonsense is greater than zero. What’s really annoying (on their mobile platform specifically) is when certain problems occur on iOS that would have been completely solvable on MacOS with a command line tool, but you have to erase the phone because Apple doesn’t give you access to the OS.

      MacOS is already deprecating the Keychain access tool, which will obfuscate more of the OS security from the user and make it more iOS-like in trying to fix failures.

      Apple is enshittifying in absence of Jobs, they’re just behind Microsoft by one or two decades.

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      The amount of time I’ve spent getting my MacOS to not be annoying… it’s such a shit experience compared to Gnome/Linux. Every single day I use MacOS, I find a new annoying inconsistency, or either poor or directly bad UX design decision or implementation.

      Next time I look for a place to work, I’d consider Windows or MacOS to require at least 30% higher salary to be worth the annoyance.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
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      Previously the fucking around was drivers, HAL, compatibility etc. now it’s a goddamn delousing

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        In them days Linux was even more about messing around with configurations and finding workarounds. It came on floppies, and as it loaded it made these kind of grinding, farting sounds. We would install it with an onion tied to our belt - which was the style at the time.

      • skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de
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        Hahaha! I’ve been dabbling in live USB thumbdrive copies of various flavors of Linux to see which one I want to go to for a while. Did a few years back and thought, “you know, my time is worth something to me, maybe I’ll give Windows a go, 10 seems pretty stable.”

        Booted up Debian Cinnamon, couldn’t get two-finger right click to work on the Synaptics config out of box, it had a few arbitrary prefs for whatever the devs decided people would probably use. Tried Debian Gnome. It had trackpad settings that were more in line with what I expected… Not giving up, but it did make me pause, because I know one can reconfigure the trackpad driver under the hood, but did I really want to jump down the rabbit hole of bespoke shellscripts again just so my audio driver correctly wakes from sleep (if it can even successfully sleep)?

        Other funny to figure out, the computer has iGPU and dGPU, both were active and the battery life was maybe 2 hours. Another thing to figure out with bespoke configurations.

        So it’s like, Windows and Linux (and lesser, MacOS) pain is definitely there, it is just kinda what kind of pain do you want to subscribe to? Linux pain will probably only occur during initial setup and maybe every few years when a major OS release comes out. MacOS pain is even more rare, unless a major OS release comes out with something you don’t like and you have to find where in the OS frameworks the feature is to disable it, if they have hooks in which to do. Windows pain is…every Tuesday.

        “Oh here’s a new lock screen weather widget”

        “Oh cool, I can get on board with that!”

        Next week:

        “Oh, here’s a new stocks and news widget to go along with the weather.”

        “Hold on there buddy, I didn’t sign up for the first and you’ve pushed two more? Time to shut those two off. Oh, it’s all or nothing, thanks! Nothing it is.”

        “Don’t worry, we’ll reinstall Dev Home next week and flag it a system app so you can’t uninstall it, and then we’ll force Copilot to be present, and then we’re going to screw with the start menu, and then we’re going to delete WordPad, and reinstall all those Office/cloud 365 shim apps and and and.” That was like, last month.

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    Hm. So are we all the way there to Win 11 not being installable in fully offline machines, or…? Because niche as that application is, it does sound like the start of a use case for a natively compatible Windows alternative from a third party (say, a FreeWin to go with FreeDOS). I know there are or have been some attempts, but… yeah, long term that seems like it would prompt more focus on something like that.

    I suppose it’s more likely that compatibility layers in other OSs would get there first and more practically, but still. Maybe it’s time to move Windows applications from an ecosystem to a standard.

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      The year of the ReactOS desktop?

      On a serious note, I suspect the IOT version doesn’t have this requirement.

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      Linux with wine/proton already works pretty good for running Windows programs and games outside of Windows.

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      I’m sure enterprise editions have to allow it in some capacity. There will always be businesses that will use Windows on machines not exposed to the Internet.

      With that said, this is some BS. And MS I don’t want to hear the argument that smartphone vendors do it. They shouldn’t require an account either.

  • laughterlaughter@lemmy.world
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    …aaaand I will never switch to Windows 11.

    But then, I’m a hypocrite, because I have to create an account to use Android.

    • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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      Forced accounts are evil - including Android. Here’s my Android story:

      When I got my first Android phone, my intention was to not have an account - or at least have as much isolation between any account and my actual usage as possible. So I decline account creation when I first started using the phone, and told the phone to only store all contacts locally. That worked, and I was pretty happy with it. But later, I wanted to download a couple of basic apps from the app store - and that required an account. So I created a bogus account to download the apps. …

      After creating the account to download stuff, I noticed that the contacts had automatically associated themselves with that new account had automatically uploaded all my contacts and personal info to google to sync with this account. This is precisely the thing I was trying to avoid in the first place. So, I immediately logged into that account via google’s website and told it to not store any contact info, and to delete all existing info. Which it did.

      But then some time later… the account again decided to sync with my phone - this time to delete all the contacts from my phone (presumably because I’d deleted them from the online account). So although I’d gone to some deliberate lengths to tell my phone to only store data locally and to not upload it, what i ended up with was all personal data uploaded, and then purged from my phone. I had to try to restore my contacts from an ancient sim-card backup from my old phone.

      Since then, I’ve decided that I will not use a google account for my phone for any reason, ever. I’ve use F-droid and the Aurora store instead. (But actually I very rarely use any apps anyway.)