• DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I’ve already sent him a PM about that user & magazine a while ago. Still waiting and hoping to hear / see something.

      Edit: I also think this is kinda disappointing. Kbin immediately defederated from nsfwlemmy over some bullshit allegations that weren’t even true. Meanwhile this and other examples of toxicity remain to fester directly on this instance.

      • BasicTraveler@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I sent him one a few months ago, and it was gone within a few hours. I think he cares, but is swamped and probably gets a ton of BS.

        It needs to be acted on though. We don’t want this to become a nazi bar. I hope he can figure out a way to share the load sometime soon.

      • Fitik@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Agree, I don’t like defederating, why defederate from instance if you can just block it (There on kbin)

        • BasicTraveler@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Any time I tried to get someone to check out Reddit, I hated having to preface it with, oh and you’re going to want to block these 30 subs, they’re horrible, and here’s another 100 that are kinda gross, I’ll email you my list…

          There’s stuff to block, but there’s stuff that should be banned too. I remember recommending some of the SQL reddits to coworkers just weeks before the jailbait crap hit the national news. It’s up to ernest how he wants to run this place, but I hope we don’t let the bar go too low.

    • Neato@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      “No bigotry against US! TERF is a slur even though we coined it!” Is what they really mean.

  • Erikatharsis@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I tried to report this magazine using the “contact” page a while back as it violates the kbin.social terms of service, but I guess as long as it’s only one nutjob posting and all the posts are getting disliked, it isn’t really a priority to remove.

    • danhakimi@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      This article is really not convincing.

      like, fuck terfs, fuck the anti-trans movement, but the connection between the anti-trans movement and fascism is framed in this suuuuper abstract way that no meaningful definition of fascism would allow. It kind of just makes fascism sound like “statism.”

      There are plenty of terfs (again, fuck terfs) who are not calling for government action, but trying to exclude trans women from feminist spaces on non-governmental levels, arguing for a limiting social or academic definition of feminism or of a woman and holding exclusionary events. Fascism is an incorrect label for that behavior.

      Furthermore, to call terfs fascists implies that they are generally for other things fascists are for, like a command economy, which I don’t think is common.

      And to be clear, there is an overlap between terfs and fascists, and an even bigger overlap between anti-trans people in general and fascists. We all know the Nazis fucked up a lot of good gender research, but they were never pretending to be feminists.

        • danhakimi@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          … did you link to the wrong article by mistake? that article doesn’t really have anything to do with fascism, except insofar as most fascists also happen to be racists.

          • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I could link articles all day but I have better things to do than entertain (presumably) a cis guy while he plays devils advocate about the people who want my friends thrown in camps not being fascists.

            • danhakimi@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              that’s literally the first article you linked to. Do you have a point at all? You can link to articles all day, but only two of them, and only one that argues for your point at all, which I’ve already addressed?

              I’m not advocating for terfs or fascists, they’re both villains, but to say they’re the same is like saying the KKK and the muslim brotherhood are the same. Just because they’re both evil and there are some common threads between their ideas doesn’t mean they’re the same. I think we should learn how to talk about the terrible groups out there instead of just equating all of them and dancing around our own ignorance. I’m not advocating them, I’m advocating against them as strongly as I can, and you’re promoting ignorance instead of responding to the one damn point I’ve made.

                • danhakimi@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  I read it, and responded to it. You’ve been ignoring my response because you don’t have an answer to it. So again. The core argument that terfs are fascists is:

                  To that end, Butler does a good job of laying out that the anti-trans movement ultimately is about strengthening government oversight — restricting access to medical care and generally seeking to ban LGBTQ+ people from the public sphere, which fits pretty neatly into just about every standard definition of fascism. That includes gender critical feminists, the self-professed “leftist” equivalent of the more extreme right-wing fundamentalists.

                  Which, again:

                  • Pretends the entire social-focused aspect of the anti-trans movement doesn’t exist, when it obviously does, and there are obviously many, many terfs focused on non-governmental oppression. The article itself describes governmental forms of oppression, but this does nothing to imply that the anti-trans movement is actually all about focusing on government oppression
                  • identifies an extremely superficial relationship between two positions as both being statist and therefore being the same. The police state is also about increasing government oversight. A command economy is about increasing government oversight. The founding of the CFPB was about increasing government oversight. Having courts is about increasing government oversight. These are not all forms of fascism.
                  • fails to describe fascism at all. Fascism is a specific thing with a specific definition, it’s not just the idea of having an active government. Fascism is a form of nationalism with a dictatorial government, a strong military focus, a hard command economy that exists to support the state and the military, expansionist policies, suppression of opposition to the government, denigration of the individual in favor of the collective in the form of the state… Now, the terf movement, overall, is doing some of those things, but the article doesn’t reference any of them.
                  • fails to establish that most terfs, or the core proponents of the terf movement, or terfs in general, are fascists, let alone that a terf is categorically a type of fascists.

                  If you have a point, then instead of linking to the same article again or linking article that isn’t about fascism, please make your point.

        • mishimaenjoyer@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I’m just pointing out that the „fascist“ label got thrown around by people like you so inflationary that it lost every meaning or sense, making you sound similar desperate as those you seek to oppose. What this does have to do with the age of my account here is beyond me, on the other hand I sense a hint of alt tech elitism that fits the picture just right.

          • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            “People like me”? You’ll forgive if I don’t follow.

            And it has a meaning—that they are being fascists—which it maintains.

            It’s fascists’ fault they’re being fascists; not mine for correctly labeling it.

              • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You want me to explain why transphobia is bad and should be opposed?

                No.

                Fuck out of here.
                I’m not explaining why antisemitism is bad either.

                • mishimaenjoyer@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Funny how this escalated from you thinking that the socialpolitical movement of fascism has anything to do with a subtribe of modern, post–liberal 2nd wave feminists all the way to antisemitism - something, that wasn’t even remotely on the table. if you now manage to stir „racism“ into the mix, you can call it a day.

  • 10A@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall fight to the death to defend your right to say it.

    When you ban people, you tell them to go form an echo chamber where they’ll flourish.

    A more intelligent approach is to imitate Daryl Davis, who has convinced hundreds of KKK members to leave the KKK, simply by respectfully talking with them.

    You might actually learn a thing or two in the process.

    • Erikatharsis@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      For every Daryl Davis who can successfully talk down 100 Klansmen, you’ll find 100 Black people begging for their lives trying to reason with the Klan in their last moments. For every thought of “I can fix them!” that you may have, you have to weigh that against how many more people you’ll need to fix if you platform their ideas and treat them as something worth “respectfully debating”.

      Convincing people to leave hate groups is a great thing to do, but if respectful debate were effective on the large scale, and we have no shortage of people respectfully arguing that hate is a bad thing, why is the far right a bigger threat now than it was ten years ago? Do not tolerate the intolerant, do not debate the undebatable, do not respect the unrespectable.

      • 10A@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        The “far right” is growing because the left keeps moving further left, and normal people realize they’re now considered conservative.

        If you want an echo chamber, go on and kick me out. You reap what you sow.

        • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          This talking point is a deliberate strategy of the far-right that has no basis in reality.

          The far-right is growing because people like him are allowed platforms to groom people for extremism. And whenever that platform is at risk, they start trying to guilt people by bleating about “censorship” and “free speech” and “echo chambers”.

          Just ban him. He will never contribute anything of value. We’re already aware what the opinions of assholes are, we don’t need reminding.

        • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          What insane version of reality are you living in?

          Globally the Overton window has shifted drastically right these past few decades.

          Not too long ago leftists were holding ceos hostage and fighting armed conflicts, it’s so watered down people think someone like Bernie Sanders is a radical communist when he’s basically centrist.

    • czech@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      You sound like you’ve never argued with fascists online.

      They only exist in echo chambers, anyway, and do not debate in good faith. There is nothing similar to what Daryl Davis did except in the most superficial way possible. Go visit /r/conservative and you might actually learn a thing or two.

      • 10A@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I was active in r/Conservative, and here I’m the primary contributer to m/Conservative. Hi, nice to meet you. When I’m engaged in arguments involving the word “fascist”, it’s rarely me using that word (unless we’re literally discussing Mussolini), and usually me who’s called that for favoring levelheaded conservative principles. I enjoy mutually respectful debate, but I find most others prefer to fearfully call me a “fascist,” downvote everything I’ve ever written, block me, and walk away feeling sanctimonious.

        • Xariphon@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I was active in r/Conservative, and here I’m the primary contributer to m/Conservative.

          This is already a point at which you should go home and rethink your life. Everything else you’ve said only digs the hole deeper.

        • czech@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          That’s a hilarious turn; my statement was meant to be rhetorical. But you really have never argued with fascists!

          And I never said YOU were fascist… but I guess that doesn’t fit with your canned response then, huh?

          • 10A@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Fascists haven’t existed since 25 Luglio in 1943. You can find a tiny number of exceptions over the years, but as a broad statement it’s true. I’m not old enough to have argued with fascists, and I bet you’re not either.

            • czech@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Fascism:

              a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

              Yea wow, we’ve never seen that in the last 7 years!

              I can see I really triggered you with that word. It’s hilarious that you self-identified with it and got defensive.

              • 10A@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                It certainly does sound like typical leftists if you squint. Everyone in this thread opposing free speech is an authoritarian. But if you actually read that definition word for word, it’s a position almost nobody supports. What’s more, the definition has been changed from the original political affiliation. I’m not surprised Miriam-Webster’s open to redefining words, but try as they might, words still mean what they originally meant. Still, their definition is close enough to the original to demonstrate my point that there are no fascists left, unless you squint and look at modern leftists.

                • czech@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Ah, right- There are no fascists but if there are it’s the leftists! Thanks for a good laugh today. Don’t ever let facts get in your way, bud.

    • SlowNPC@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      I have mixed feelings about this

      On one hand, Daryl Davis is a hero, and his method actually works to de-radicalize people. I prefer using this method when I encounter bigots irl.

      On the other hand, allowing bigoted speech in your online platform has the potential to drive away normal folks and turn your platform into the echo-chamber where bigotry flourishes that you mentioned. This is basically what happened to Voat.

      I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall fight to the death to defend your right to say it.

      I agree with this, but it’s beside the point. This isn’t a public space like a street corner, it’s a managed public/private space like a bar, where the bouncer will kick you out for abusing other patrons.

      • danhakimi@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Daryl Davis does what he does in one-on-one contexts and other safe environments.

        He doesn’t go on extremist internet forums and try to convince a bunch of nutjobs and trolls and violent monsters all at the same time. He would have been downvoted into oblivion where people who are looking for somebody to troll would have found him and antagonized him until he left.

      • 10A@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        A group of patrons sitting at a table in a bar, quietly discussing their TERF perspective, is entirely different from one of them walking up to a trans table and picking a fight. The former is an exercise of free speech, whereas the latter is cause for ejection.

        • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Except it’s more like a group of patrons at a bar talking about killing a trans person, and than the next day one of them actually does it.

  • Infiltrated_ad8271@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Apparently, almost everything (within the law) is allowed until it generates enough controversy to annoy the admin, in which case it is banned regardless of whether it violated the code of conduct or not.

    • Chetzemoka@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Well, it violates the Kbin terms of service. Therefore it is being bright to the attention of admin.

      “We expect all users to treat each other with respect and kindness. Harassment, hate speech, or any other form of harmful behavior will not be tolerated. We reserve the right to remove any content or user that violates these guidelines.”