I think it has become more than apparent that our federation with Hexbear has degraded the quality of browsing on this instance. I’m generally for open federation, but the amount of brigading and general toxicity is not conducive to the friendly communications that make Lemmy great.
You must log in or register to comment.
Hexbear does not participate or argue in good faith. Their only goal is to “dunk on” everyone who disagrees with them through bad faith arguments and brigading/harassing.
100% they’re just complete shitheads who can’t bother to form coherent arguments or debate. They just harass and pile on. They gotta own the libs. Can’t be bothered to find common ground or make discussion. It’s insanely toxic. Tanky version of trumpers is just the most accurate way to describe them.
“Never believe that [tankies] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [tankies] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Jean-Paul Sartre
i understand that our level of activity tends to overwhelm smaller instances, but what others call “brigading” is literally just us clicking on what’s on the front page.
This is not true. Brigading is when there’s a post on Hexbear that links back to a specific post or comment on another instance, and Hexbears follow that posted link to interact. This happens all the time, I’m looking at Hexbears front page right now and there’s several links back to sh.itjust.works.
And some of those links actively encouraging hexbear users to brigade.
You’re on a link aggregator platform and you are annoyed because people are aggregating links?
Linking internally is definitely not the point, and I’m not annoyed, just pointing out that you can watch the brigading happen in realtime, so claiming that brigading isn’t happening is gaslighting.
This isn’t reddit, linking between instances is how this platform works. There are users who might only be federated with the instance where a link is posted and not the instance where the original post is.
That is a lie you want other people to believe. But your main activity back in your safespace is pointing out threads and posts marked for brigading (or “dunking” as you call it).
I’m honestly tired of seeing the constant Hexbear defederation posts popping up on /all from other instances’ meta communities, and now sadly our own.
The features to defederate on a per-user basis are coming: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2397
For anyone who can’t wait, it is honestly easier to sign up on another instance who has already defederated. This is not reddit, you’re not penalised or restricted for having a brand new account somewhere. You also don’t need to type an essay if there’s an application, just prove you’re human.
Ehhh, the fact that it comes up so often is an indicator that there’s something wrong.
The issues that cause people to make these posts (if you look at the content of the posts and assume they’re made in good faith) are consistently about the behavior of the people from hexbear.
Since the instance literally has discussions about disrupting other instances communities, I don’t think it’s at all strange to see a ton of calls for defederation.
There’s what, three apps that let you filter instances? Considering that solution is very limited (and doesn’t actually prevent the disruption intended by the bad actors that use hexbear), trying to say that the “real” solution is to uproot yourself, migrate via the migration tools, and hope that’s the end of it isn’t useful.
Calls for defederation are part of lemmy. It just is the ultimate solution to an instance being a problem. The fact that it’s currently the only instance wide way to prevent disruption from another instance just reinforces the reason the ability is there in the first place.
Per user defederation will be wonderful once it arrives, but it’s only useful when the instance you’re on chooses not to defederate from a disruptive instance and you can’t/won’t move away.
As boring as it is to see defederation calls, they aren’t going away.
Its ubiquitous for a reason. They have been nothing but trouble since they federated.
I wouldnt even mind defederating them for now and then deleting the blacklist once the instance blocking feature is added.
From that pull request:
“My PR only hides communities from that instance, but not users.”
So no, it’s not defederation on a per-user basis.
At this point, I feel like there might be a team of people all pushing different instances to defederate hexbear. A lot of the comments look the same in each post too. Could just be me.
Yeah.
You know - I’ve been thinking the same thing about water. There must be a team of people all working together to push the idea that it’s wet. Why else would so many different people all say the same thing?
Yeah.
You know - And magnets how TF do they work anyway?
You can’t explain that
:)
You cut our the part where the commenter equated libertarianism to pedophilia, which as I said, was exemplary of hexbear behavior.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3885422
Here is another where I was called a Nazi despite my left leaning nature. This isnt a political request. Lemmy.ml is quite pleasant.
Hexbear is just behaving in a toxic manner.
https://lemmy.one/comment/2652503
You seem to just ignore that these reasonable and measured statements were a response to harassment, of which Ive gotten plenty from hexbear.
Your Image cuts out the interplay of “you all harass me”, proceeded by harassment, and then “this is what Im talking about”
Where’s the lie?
You had a bad experience on hexbear because noone wants to discuss your ‘libertarian progressive brand of communism’, so now your entire instance needs to defederate?
Your image cuts out the interplay of “you all harass me”
that was your first comment on that post, you’re jumping the shark
What do you mean by where’s the lie? That libertarianism is pedophilia?
Elaborate if I misread
I’ve yet to meet a self ascribed libertarian that didn’t have some weird ideas about the age of consent.
Anyway, you were posting in a hexbear comm, stop trying to make others do the work for you and just chill maybe.
Don’t people of a Chomsky-type bent sometimes self-describe as libertarian? It’s less common in the US because of how libertarians here are usually right-wingers but the libertarians=pedophiles trope is less common abroad is my understanding. I usually peg them as more anarchist types, which usually are welcome in hexbear.
Not super into this one wanting to defend NATO but I think they have a point about the pedo stuff.
Chomsky palled around with Epstein so that’s a very funny example.
I know, I thought about bringing it up but I didn’t think it would help make my point. I think the larger point (that self-described libertarians aren’t all obsessed with age of consent the way that American ones are) is still valid, but it is very unfortunate that the poster example of what I’m trying to describe had Epstein as an accountant.
Libertarian originally referred to an anarchist-like movement before getting coopted by Rand types
Thank you BTW, but do you not think this level of vitriol from the other user is not justified. I did not say anything remotely worth that immediate harassment.
Thats kind of the point of this post. Hexbear has rightly become maligned because this is how every single conversation goes.
If I, a politically friendly person is met with that much hostility, then how do you expect hexbear to behave across Lemmy as a whole?
I think a pretty strong reaction IS warranted against defense of NATO, personally I think it’s a very bad take but I’m trying to stick up for you here. I think it would be better to focus the vitriol against that disagreement than going after your label.
If it’s any help I’m not sure how much awareness you have of the recent controversy that’s been roiling with the folks at SJW but there have been a lot of people recently defending the specific position you are but also engaging in a pretty hostile way, especially in regards to the use of ableist/transphobic rhetoric that we do not tolerate. Nerves are a bit frayed on Hexbear writ large. I think a lot of Hexbears are reacting to hostility with carpet bombing rather than precision as a result.
Hell, until this weekend I was basically just a lurker, the recent stuff brought me out of the woodwork. I can’t tell you what to do, but I think if you give Hexbear some time things will mellow out, things are just tense at the moment. I wouldn’t say you should ever expect them to like you being pro-NATO but I think you’re likely to get more constructive engagement generally the further out from this weekend we get.
Just my two cents.
vitriol
Reddit liberals really like this word for some reason.
Thats what Im taking about. You arent helping your point. And you are now in my community, so if we are in agreement, then you can stop commenting here while we engage in healthy. discourse.
This has nothing do with politics. As your image helpfully shows, Im a libertarian communist. Our ideals are quite close.
But, as I posted, hexbear behavior is unbecoming and unwelcoming. That’s why hexbear should be defederated, as that is the culture there most unfortunately.
👍
He forgot to add that its ephebophilia
🥳
Libertarians tend to be obsessed with lowering the age of consent lol. You sound confused.
No u
The current strain of libertarianism in the “west” does seem to have an issue at some point when it comes to this topic.
At least with the political compass, libertarianism is simply the southern two quadrants.
Not that it has anything to do with this comment, just wanted to clarify that the notion of “western libertarians” is likely a misunderstanding.
please reconsider deriving your politics from reactionary memes
alternatively: new site tag holy fuck
Its a descriptive tool. As such, its is both as meaningful and arbitrary. As all other made up words and concepts.
I think the important part is that it helped explain my ideology in less words than a drawn out online screed
Your “ideology” doesn’t exist. That’s why it can only be explained by something as meaningless as the political compass
it’s a terrible tool, and it’s no wonder you were lumped in with
hebepaedophiles if you think it’s a useful metric.It’s not though man…
It fundamentally breaks when ideologies which agree on issues are shown as diverging when others don’t. If you’re really a communist you should understand this as idealist nonsense which can’t actually reflect the complexities of political thought. “Libertarian” thought is also that which supports indentured servitude. Do “libertarian socialists” agree with that? No I sure hope not.
This is a fundamental breakdown of that depiction of politics and the fact that you still reference it as a “useful tool” betrays the incoherence of your politics.
You cut our the part where the commenter equated libertarianism to pedophilia, which as I said, was exemplary of hexbear behavior.
Are you a libertarian? What do you think about age of consent laws?
-crickets-
Why on Earth would I dignify that comment?
It’s a pretty common joke for libright people
Ill just leave my link attached. I think it speaks for itself, and the degradation in the quality of Lemmy as a whole.
Not to be dramatic, because I quite like lemmy.one, but I’m going to have to swap to an instance that has defederated until we are given instance wide blocking. Ill return once its implemented though if we don’t otherwise defederate first.
Just delete your account that’ll solve it
I stand by Lemmy.ones belief in allowing conflicting values. Thats why im here. Hexbear can be as communist as it wants. I too an a communist.
What is not OK is the toxicity of hexbear. It degrades the experience.
The problem is that hexbear is actually alt-right concern trolls. Nobody there is actually lgbt, it’s just a handle they use so they know who to target with their harassment.
A whole bunch of nazis who love that neo-communist trump.
🤣 🤣🤣🤣
I like these threads because they’re almost exclusively filled with people trying their best to prove the OP right.
I wouldn’t know coming from a sub that deferated them. So peaceful.
Keep em coming, let it serve as a monument to the 4Chan like behavior of hexbear.
This person definitely knows what 4chan geta up to
To them, mild disagreement from a few people is equivalent to doxxing, years-long harassment campaigns, and mass shootings.
ok nerd
No u
hexchan
I compared them to 4chan and got so many russeled jimmies… It’s so weird how the extreme toxic incels on either extreme side of the political spectrum are basically the same ethos.
That’s because it’s not a line, it’s a circle. Go off one side, come back on the other.
Hexchan and onekun? 🥺
deleted by creator
I’m for defederation at least until instance blocking is available. I’ve already blocked most of their communities from my feed, but comments have been really unpleasant since they federated.
It’s not really about the ideology as much as not wanting to have to scroll past endless political bickering. Rage addiction is real and contagious.
I will also place my support for defederation of Hexbear.
Our rule #4 clearly states: (emphasis mine)
No harassment, dogpiling or doxxing of other users.
Every one of you hexbear users AND users of remote instances who are here harrassing and arguing with OP about their views is doing just that. Dogpiling.
In a meta thread that hasn’t much place. Instead of trying to discredit the user proposing the defederation; maybe try proving you folks can play by our rules. Yes; Jonah does permit a variety of viewpoints. If you can stay within our ruleset.
as always I leave it up to you to review their behavior(s) @[email protected] and decide if defederation is an appropriate action. But the action of the several hexbear users who have replied before this comment have not inspired my faith in them to behave.
Every one of you hexbear users AND users of remote instances who are here harrassing and arguing with OP about their views is doing just that. Dogpiling.
Realistically, how is one of the most active instances supposed to interact with any community without coming across as dogpiling? It can kinda work if you all share similar political viewpoints but when it comes to politics there is literally no way to avoid dogpiling by your definition.
Can you please explain your invention of “democratic” communism before you defed?
I’ve asked and you’ve never explained it to me
Every fucking thread on the front page is about communism. Don’t you guys have anything else to talk about?
Like honestly we have spaces for mental health, tech, movies, news, chat, veganism, and COVID. Also we host movie nights which are pretty rad.
I really have nothing against people with more normie interests like football, TV, Marvel, etc. It’s just not super popular at our end.
Yes, they love to talk about how their governments failing are the fault of everyone else, and if you have anything even slightly judgemental to say about their bullshit they scream at you about propaganda and how skinny/limp their dicks are (idk about the last part, I zoned out last time I saw one of them having a fit).
Yes, they love to talk about how their governments failing are the fault of everyone else,
Yes, I am american how did you know
The username for starters, not many edgelords trying to put other countries politicians in their usernames.
Yes, they love to talk about how their governments failing are the fault of everyone else
Alright, here’s a fun experiment we should try: you know what America did to North Korea? Let’s allow, say, China, do the same thing to America. That includes:
-
Destroy almost literally every single building in the country, including factories, hospitals, and schools.
-
Kill 15-20% of the entire American population.
-
Destroying all the irrigation dams and other structures so that farming is made incredibly difficult.
-
Bombard the country with so many bombs that the people are forced to live underground and only farm at night.
I think this will be a fair experiment to see if American capitalism can compare with socialism when the rubber meets the road.
-
Literally never seen a post from this instance, or a user until now, bubye
Give people the ability to block instances at an account level and federate with everyone
Agreed. Thats where Im at. I do think something has to be done in the meantime however.
