I might be able to star working on a big co-op after finishing college, I understand its not the best it can be as they exist in a capitalist system, but I think my living conditions will be better than working for some other company, what are your thoughts?
Edit: Thanks for all your responses! I will try to get to work there when I finish college, maybe in the future I can help some of your projects with the co-ops funding programs!
I think working at a co-op is basically as good as it gets under capitalism. And I think co-ops still have a role in a socialist system. State owned industry is great at meeting cross-cutting concerns such as building infrastructure, food production, education, etc. All these things need to be done without any profit motive because they’re needed in order to meet basic needs of the people. However, cooperatively owned market economy on top of that can be an effective way to provide nice to have goods that improve the quality of life for people. Incidentally, goulash communism model from Hungary is a good example of this in action.
What are your thoughts around the idea that even under socialism, co-ops will still be incentivized to make big profits, and can still perpetuate capitalist problems? I think we all agree that co-ops are ‘better’, but in an absolute value way, is it ‘enough?’
I keep wondering if under socialism we can create new incentive structures so that even co-ops won’t be incentivized too have big profits, but I’m not sure the best way to go about that, or if it has been tried before.
I think that is still a concern even under socialism. However, I’d argue that worrying about what the best possible approach might be given where we are is not really meaningful. Dialectics dictate that we connect theory to practice, and that means focusing on improving the current state of things, then once we get to a better state, we can make a hypothesis on how to improve things further, and iterate on that. It’s practically impossible for us to say what will work and what won’t without actually trying different approaches, then refining our ideas using that experience.
It’s also important to keep in mind that Marxism isn’t idealist. We should always be focused on tangible material outcomes instead of worrying about what an Utopian world might look like.
Great food for thought, thank you.
I think it was on the deprogram or maybe socialist program where they discussed an issue where in many communities there would be people who just didn’t work, and when people saw how half assed the other workers did it, they thought ‘why should I work so hard when that person is just slacking’
This is a core issue. Fairness in labour. This is what the right uses to justify capitalism because they believe the whole meritocracy lie.
So is Chinas case the solution was to say ok in this village the quota is X but if you personally go above quota you can sell the excess and keep the profit.
I find this interesting, it’s kinda capitalist communist - hybrid.
Fascinating. I think that solution use better than our capitalism, but I do wonder if we can do better, without resorting to jailing those that don’t work. Like if there is a way to incentivize work without profits, or ensure people do work they actually carry about and want to do. As well, how do we manage working less and less without it being seen as lazy, and keep up with demands.
I think if we were in a fully socialist economy with no artificial scarcity, no planned obsolescence, maximum power efficiency mandated along with housing heat / cooling efficiency, public transportation and leveraging AI models for production and allocation of resources, we wouldn’t have to work half as much as we do. Automation is only the enemy in capitalist society.
Imagine a 3 day work week, having guaranteed housing food and healthcare. Imagine no workplace discrimination on race, gender, sexual orientation discrimination, no housing discrimination, no schooling discrimination. No for profit prison system. Free public transportation. How different it would be… I think people would be incentivised because the connection to society would be stronger.