If the rumors regarding the performance for the sequel are true, they won’t even have a working game on launch.
I curse the day Agile development graced the PMs working on game studios.
When the term Minimum Viable Product (MVP) was born it was a race to the bottom.
It’s already kinda annoying not to have all the old content but I can see the reasons behind that. But a new game starting from scratch of a genre they are experienced with should have much better performance now that there aren’t all those additional mechanics. Failing at both of these is just an utter disregard to their customers.
Well the game is out and luckily the rumors weren’t true.
With a medium-density city, I get about 40 FPS @ 4K in the sequel. With the same-sized city, I used to get 20 FPS in the original, so twice the FPS is a massive improvement IMO. But people are still salty cause we live in a world where anything less than 60 FPS @ 1440p is unacceptable. Which is stupid as fuck cause you don’t need 240+ FPS in a city-building game with next to no action in it that would require such a high framerate.
As much as I like C:S, the thought of getting a relatively barebones game with $200 in DLC over the next 5-7 years to make the city feel complete makes me feel depressed.
That was the bummer in the original game. Only two ways to deal with trash, unless you bought $30 of DLC. I’ll be waiting to see if the game is good or not, or if they totally gimped certain parts of the game like bridges, ports and transit to resell back as a la carte DLC.
I don’t understand this attitude that the new game needs to include the DLC of the old one that’s never been a thing in games. New versions of an old game never previously included the DLC for the old game apart from anything else because it wouldn’t make sense because they’ve changed so many systems.
I think the difference now is that DLC adds features, and so people are upset when the new game is missing features from the old DLC. Where in the past, say with Oblivion or Skyrim, it was just more story, maybe some new skills, in one case there was a new feature (house building) and their newer games do include that feature. But people don’t expect the story line from the DLC in the new game.
Features in DLC feel different these days. In the past DLC had a more limited scope, and you looked forward to the new game for new features. But now if the new game comes out with less features it can be a bummer for people used to the old game. There isn’t really a great solution because I don’t think it always makes sense to add all the DLC features in the new game.
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Of course they will. Don’t they deserve to be paid for their work? They’re making a fairly niche product and constantly making improvements to it. What’s to complain about?
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I always find this discussion interesting. I don’t personally tend to play Paradox games at all so I’ve no real horse in the race, but I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with the model. It’s designed around people being able to buy the specific parts they want, and those specific things having a good level of quality / depth to them.
Like, if you’re really into early 20th century Japanese architecture, would you rather have a single house thrown into a “kitchen sink” DLC pack that you can copy-paste over and over into your city with no options to customise or expand on that, or would you prefer an entire DLC dedicated to that style so you can build a full district or city in that style?
And conversely, if you’re not into early 20th century Japanese architecture, would you rather have a single house in that style thrown into your DLC pack that you don’t care about and won’t ever use, or would you prefer your DLC pack to contain things you are interested in?
Maybe the average consumer does look and think “wow, I really need to spend $404.40 to be able to play the game” and decide against it, I don’t know. But personally, if I see a game has DLCs like “specific niche cosmetic option pack #2” then I see them as not at all necessary, and figure I can play the base game first and just buy any additional packs I want later.
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C:S1 is basically designed around most players not buying every DLC. You only buy the ones you want. Also, wait for a sale. $404 over the entire time the game has been out is also not that bad. Sure, buying it all at once it’s a lot, but the player buying every DLC has probably been playing since launch. Think of it as a subscription for new content. You can not subscribe and still get plenty of content (every DLC added stuff to vanilla for free), or you can pay the fee to get everything. If this is your genre, you want to give then money to keep making improvements. If they don’t make money you don’t get anything new.
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I picked up I think literally every DLC for CK2 a few months before CK3 was announced. It’s was maybe $50. I think much less (although I already owned the base game and maybe a few DLCs). No one is expecting new players to purchase that at retail price. The sale price is the actual price for a new player. I don’t think it actually really scares anyone off. If you want a city builder, there’s only one option. You stick it on your wishlist for a sale and buy what you want.
Buy only what you need at first and then go from there.
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Paradox is the publisher. The developers are Colossal Order with a total of 30 employees it seems.
“We absolutely cannot have ten years of Cities Skylines 1 content done” for the launch of the sequel, Colossal Order CEO Mariina Hallikainen says in the latest issue of PC Gamer. As a result, the studio decided to focus on “those things that we feel should have been in the original Cities: Skylines, but we didn’t have the time or manpower.”
Anyone that’s not a fucking idiot already knew this, because we understand how temporal reality works. But the whiny “everything sucks and is bad” Stephanie Sterling crowd won’t care.
But it looks like they did incorporate DLC into the sequel; it just isn’t obvious. The current implementation of extractive versus value added industry looks better than what they did with Industries. The quantity of different transit types also feels like an equivalent to a couple of DLC for the original game. I also feel like the sequel’s approach to power would also be most of a DLC for the original.
It isn’t perfect, but it looks like Collosal Order at least implemented a lot of lessons learned from the original game. It doesn’t seem as empty as C:S at launch.
I’ve played enough CS1 to know that I can’t play it any more, no matter how much content it has. Its absolutely braindead traffic AI destroys my enjoyment of if the game once a city gets sufficiently big.
The traffic AI fixes were all I needed to see to be interested in CS2.
I too am an Adam Something fan. 😂
Edit: the reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnYod32PCk
I don’t actually get that reference.
Oh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHnYod32PCk
Adam Something just released a C:S2 video where he removed roads and messed with traffic logic.
I see a whole new generation of gamers who have grown up on these new games that they think are perfect, who didn’t see the decades of toil and crap that we did growing up. They expect everything to be the most amazing game they’ve ever seen, not understanding that perfect games are in fact, exceedingly rare. That most games have bad mechanics, quirks, boring areas, and things we put up with. But younger folks just stamp it as a “bad game” and refuse to see the nuance.
Things like games are a spectrum. There’s only 3ish games I mark as perfect. Most will have some things wrong with them. If you don’t like that, then just be content with maybe one perfect game a decade.
While that’s true, there’s also a huge difference from like 20+ years ago when they more often than not released games as a complete functional product as opposed to a “we hit the date” buy-in beta test. Games just tend to release with less features and polish than they used to, for the most part companies will keep working on it and get it where it needs to be so the final product is comparable, but it makes for a murkier cycle, buy in at release and probably suffer or wait and try to time when it’s actually ready.
And then you’ve got absolute mad men like Concerned Ape making stardew valley 10 times better with free updates for years and years. Showing these money hungry companies how it’s done.
Yes, companies with 30 employees are, in fact, money hungry because that’s how the employees fucking eat. One person’s recurring costs are nowhere near the recurring costs of dozens of people. WEIRD HOW MATH.
Stardew Valley, Undertale, Braid, all of these one-man (mostly) shows generated enough revenue to effectively retire their creators overnight but if they had to pay 30 motherfuckers with the proceeds… yeah, not so much.
At the expense of: No Stardew Valley 2.
Honestly, why would we need a Stardew Valley 2? There’s so many harvest moon games but are they really anything more than small iterations? Not to mention those have been garbage since the IP was basically stolen from the original developers.
This is a trend that I have recently started noticing. PAYDAY 3 came out with basically nothing included after PAYDAY 2 had literally 10 years of continuous content/80 DLCs pumped into it. As another example, The Sims always comes out with a new release that has every feature removed so they can sell you all the same DLC again and again.
In some cases this would appear to be a (corporate) success, but it seems it’s actually been part of the downfall of recently-released PAYDAY 3. As of this moment in time, the rolling 24-hour peak of player count in PAYDAY 3 is 4,699. The rolling 24-hour peak of PAYDAY 2 is 37,399. Why would players who have a fully finished game with all DLC already available want to play your new barren game?
CK3 was the last straw for me. It’s been years, and the DLC released is both expensive and lacking in the mechanics of CK2.
Yeah, and Payday 2 had basically nothing at launch compared to Payday and people bitched about the lack of content after only two years.
Or playable framerates.
Why not? The constant updates are what kept me playing for so many years!
I think the developer meant they can’t have a decade of C:S DLC included in vanilla C:S2.
I’m planning to try and build an offset hex grid city
Basically there’s one hex pattern for car traffic, and an offset hex pattern that’s for pedestrians and cyclists, and where there’s any intersections between the two, the car traffic gets raised to give pedestrian traffic an underpass.
Also every car intersection is a roundabout, and I’m considering doing alternating one way lanes with every pair being bracketed by transit only lanes.
That’s totally expected. Besides, most of the Cities Skylines DLC were shit anyway. I mean building a zoo, seriously?
That sounds fun to me considering I liked the original Zoo Tycoon and nothing modern scratches that itch.
Was it at least done well, though? I’ve never really looked through the DLCs. I figured most of them were just visual content additions like new styled buildings and what not.
Some of the DLC, like After Dark (adds day/night cycle with changing resource use depending on the time of day) and Mass Transit (adds a bunch of new transportation methods along with new roads) feel almost essential to the game. Most of the others (like Parklife, which adds the zoo and some other stuff) just add a little more to do in the game once you’ve nailed down what it takes to run a city.
And then there’s the radio stations, in case you wanted to pay $4 to listen to the same 3 songs and 4 fake ads on loop.
My take is that they’re trying to sell the game to people who haven’t already purchased CS:1, or who haven’t purchased any DLCs from CS:1. If you’ve already purchased DLC’s, you’ve already served your purpose to the company.
Seems counter intuitive. If that was the case then the true would be of all the Sims games. I bet the majority of buyers will be from CS:1. The market audience is only so big.
From what I’ve seen the road building is far better and basically incorporates all the “retired” mods
I’m sad that zoning is still essentially the same as how SimCity did it in 1989, as I really want mixed use, but that’s a minor quibble
Cities skylines 2 has mixed used, or at least the mini trailers and dev diaries says so
All the people I’ve seen playing it don’t seem to show any specific way to do mixed use, so if it does exist it’s probably just a thing that happens automatically on high density housing units
It’s literally an option in the zoning tool so I don’t know what videos you’ve been watching
It gets unlocked later and the embargoes were staggered so they couldn’t show certain milestones in the game. The newer videos will have it now, so look at those to see everything, including how their computers are chugging even with brand new hardware on high settings.
I like Paradox DLC policies. Most of them are actually good and add a lot to the game. It also lets them service the game for a long period of time and push free updates along with DLCs.
I really dislike Paradox DLC policies. Most of them are actually really bad and add nothing to the game. It also lets them procrastinate bigger updates and bugfixes for a long period of time and push free updates along with breaking 50% of the mods.
I like their DLC policies.
The base game gets updated over a period of what, 10 years? Core gameplay mechanics which don’t work well or at least don’t make the developers happy are tweaked or revamped all the time. I only really play Stellaris, but the changes to the game throughout the years have kept things interesting.
The alternative is… not updating things which they don’t like? Perhaps that means mods never break, but then we’re shifting the onus of fixing the game to a third party, who can decide to quit whenever they want and let their (closed source) code deprecate. I’ve seen that kind of thing in Civ and I wasn’t a fan.
I guess with a studio that has demonstrated a pattern of long-term support for their games, this is what we get.
Nuh uh
