• Fleur__@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Idgaf about any of that lingo. Workers deserve the world simply by merit of being workers. So what if a rich upper class “owns” the land, capital and resources to build an iPhone, it’s not like they actually could without people designing, manufacturing and distributing them.

    • MenKlash@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Workers deserve the world simply by merit of being workers.

      Well, I believe anyone who owns property, by legit means (Neo-Lockean homestead principle), should have the right to have total ownership over it, without compromising the natural rights (Life, liberty and property) of others.

      it’s not like they actually could without people designing, manufacturing and distributing them.

      Exactly! That’s why social cooperation and division of labor is possible, by voluntary relationships and the pursue of self interest.

      Idgaf about any of that lingo.

      Don’t be closed-minded. I invite you to read more about libertarian ethics and the Austrian School of Economics.

        • Fleur__@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Bros like “go to Austrian school” Man go tf outside mfrs out here struggling and he’s like “it’s elementary Watson just go to elite college and learn capitalism good actually”

      • Fleur__@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        How exactly do you intend to have these values upheld and protected from a wealthy class without intermission of state. I find the idea that private property is the personal fiefdom of whoever owns it non constructive. So what if a rich person owns 3 houses. If two of them sit empty the homeless should be housed in them regardless of the personal wishes of the owner. I don’t like the idea that our society should be constructed around a system of self interest because society is built from community not competition

        • novibe@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          It can be built on self-interest, but only if people have conscious egoism.

          The lack of conscious egoism is more obvious in the capitalist class. They destroy the world for their own “self-interest”. But that is a contradiction. They, as us, need the world to live. They act anti-socially and destroy the wellbeing of poorer people in their “self-interest”. But we as a species are social animals and only feel as good as the one among us that feels the worst. Homelessness, famine, destitution etc. obviously affect the people directly suffering from them most, but they also affect all of us. We can’t as individuals be truly happy and content as long as people suffer in poverty.

          If we were to truly act in self-interest, in a truly conscious way, we would make sure everyone was materially served, had no needs, and could follow their dreams to the fullest. That would be the most satisfying thing for all of us individually.

          For the capitalists to enjoy their positions, they have to separate themselves from the rest of humanity. And in many ways, from their own humanity itself.

        • MenKlash@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          How exactly do you intend to have these values upheld and protected from a wealthy class without intermission of state.

          Property is a naturally arising relationship between human beings and material things. Property rights make possible economic calculation, a wider and more productive division of labor, and therefore increasing levels of prosperity. Any intromission on property results in loss of freedom and prosperity.

          The Neo-Lockean homestead principle states that the only legit ways to own property is either by

          • Mixing your labor with unowned resources;

          • Trading or being gifted it by the previous owner;

          • Producing new property.

          the homeless should be housed in them regardless of the personal wishes of the owner.

          The end does not justify the means. If that rich person legitimately owns 3 houses, they should have the full control of their property, as their natural right should be protected.

          I don’t like the idea that our society should be constructed around a system of self interest because society is built from community not competition

          Civilization itself is inconceivable in the absence of private property. A community is built by the willness of its individual members to cooperate with each other by voluntary means.

          As human beings are different by nature, we are willing to form a community so that, with our own skills and intelligence, we can help ourselves by helping others. Differences are the very source of division of labor and, withing a free-market setting, lead not to conflict but cooperation.

          Competition is a dynamic process of change. It’s not merely about rivalry between existing businesses but also about the discovery of new opportunities and better ways of serving consumer needs, being a part of the spontaneous order.