The other user is right. Any tolerance for those ideologies gives them a foothold. It makes room for them. There can be no room, at all, for that shit. Ever. Arguing otherwise is dangerous. There is no nuance here. At all.

Over the past several days I’ve seen you draw out many good faith disagreements about racism or nazism into what seem like intentionally blurry “just asking questions” type derailments whereby you try to shift the topic of the discussion to other, emotional or tangential details and or try to misrepresent the issue at hand to make the racism or nazism seem not that bad. I really don’t think someone would do that if they were coming from a place of genuine confusion or curiosity or dialogue. I might be wrong, but taken together it really gives the impression, intent aside, that you’re trying to spin up plausible arguments for far right stuff and then sow confusion whenever people say “hey, don’t do that, it’s harmful”. I just don’t believe there’s wiggle room here. I don’t want to have a circular conversation about it, but i do want to point out directly what you’re doing, because I think it sucks, and I think that you should stop.

I just want to state very emphatically that deradicalizing people is a specific skill set and set of actions that is completely different than “being friendly to nazis”. And tolerating bigotry so that people don’t feel bad about their bigotry is just tolerating bigotry. On that note, on another post you argued heavily with multiple users that white privilege is not real and that you were being oppressed for your whiteness. I thought maybe you were very young, or confused, and tried to have empathy and explain some concepts, but here you are now also arguing that we need to be nice to nazis for the good of society so that they don’t feel oppressed. I suppose you might say that pointing this out and making you feel more oppressed would drive you further away, but a better approach, i think, would be to tell you very very directly that the things you have been saying here, in multiple places, are white supremacist talking points. And no one here is going to condone that. Stop. If you need help stopping, that is your responsibility, not the hypothetical 9 other peoples’.

RIGHT. Thank you for pointing this out.

:::

I feel like they always try to make it sound more complicated and high minded. I really don’t believe it is!

Hey i think you can not believe in something, and also think the person with the belief is acting wrongly or has bad or irresponsible takes about their belief, without using the validity of that belief itself as a basis for discrediting or putting down the person in a disagreement. Does that make sense? I think you can be totally free to find someone annoying or disagree with their ideas, and even privately think something is silly, without using someone’s spiritual or religious belief as the thing that is the problem you have with them. Demanding evidence or proof of someone’s religion or asking someone to justify what they believe spiritually or explain to your satisfaction why it’s not evil/dangerous/bad/fake is almost always trolling and can verge on bullying. But you can disagree with someone without doing that. It’s easy.

I really struggle to take seriously what these tech people say about ‘not wanting to censor’. They made a business calculation, and maybe an ideological one, and decided “we want that nazi money, it’s worth it to us.” which really tells you everything about a company and how it is likely to approach other issues, too.

This has really nothing to do with the thread at all, but Psychonaut Field Manual is actually a pretty well known text with some fairly well established practices in it. That strain of occultism isn’t particularly new and it’s not a cult, nor is it mutually exclusive with therapy. It’s just another flavor of normal benign human stuff. Ok carry on.

Mike Johnson is doing creepy, but very unfortunately mainstream weird patriarchal purity parenting in public and I hope it highlights the fact that among a pretty large segment of the population, this is seen as acceptable and goes unchallenged.

I think there’s probably a lot of profit in creating the impression among (disproportionately young) users that they can, though.

I disagree with you here. I just don’t think it makes any sense. People are too complex and varied.

Fascinated by this. Especially because it seems now (ideally) someone with more time and expertise than me will now have to verify or disprove whether companies really do this.

I don’t think you can know anything about a person based on their perceived affiliation to a culture. Wars, nuclear or otherwise, aren’t fought by cultures or even countries, but by groups of powerful individuals within those things, and people are all different and have infinitely varying thoughts about things that their governments do, or that other people they share a group affiliation with do. I think it’s best to target any resentment about a specific event at the actual people who took part in making it occur, and not at people who happen identify with the same culture as the hypothetical nuclear perpetrators. The latter doesn’t make any sense to me, unless the goal is to come up with a pre-justification for cruelty or discrimination, which often has a secondary practical purpose beyond just “I’m upset about that nuclear war”.

A handful of comments on a thread where people say that the doxxing of specifically nazis is a valid self defense tactic against nazism, is not the same as the “point of beehaw” - which is full of news, recipes, gaming and music discussions, chatter, all kinds if things - being about doxxing people. And i think you know that.

This very much seems like the statement of a troll who hasn’t spent a lot of time here. Please desist.

It sounds like the post in question was not on beehaw, and it was later removed. I can understand feeling strongly about that, but no one was actually doxxed on beehaw and regardless of anyone’s opinions on whether or not it’s ok to dox neo nazis, it was made clear that doxxing would still be against beehaw’s rules. It sounds like the moderators were following their policy of not messing with non-beehaw posts, but then did actually go ahead and remove it. So their own philosophy about it didn’t impede moderation decisions. No one said that it was ok to “dox people we don’t like here”, they said that while they personally believed that doxxing people who specifically engage in the violent ideology of neonazism was ok, the post in question was outside beehaw’s usual moderation scope. Later it was clarified that doxxing is against beehaw’s rules, and the federated post was removed anyway. I do think all that nuance is really important, and I do think that, intentionally or not, your post initially made the situation sound like something pretty different than what was actually said or what happened.

Thank you for adding this context.

I think it’s perfectly valid to feel a personal conviction against doxing as tactic to fight neo nazism, without also conflating someone’s ideas on the subject with “what is okay here” and “getting the popcorn”. It feels kinda weird to me and less like an attempt to raise a concern, and more like something else that may not be entirely in good faith. I think reasonable people can disagree on this one without it being a blanket statement about beehaw, or what you are expected to think or feel comfortable/uncomfortable with as a user. It’s perfectly okay to not like what you read or agree with it. But I’m uncomfortable with your implication that this one screenshot means things it doesn’t actually say, in a broad way about beehaw. Unless I’m missing some information, no one has doxxed anyone here. Please don’t try to start popcorn-getting-level conflicts here. I don’t think anybody wants that.

I love Alexander Skarsgard. He never misses and he’s killed every role I’ve seen him in. But I’m pretty skeptical about the idea of Murderbot being adapted at all. Five million mixed feelings here. Damn it, I wish we weren’t doing this, I bet it will be good.

You’re right. It’s gotten too easy for me to forget that, these days. Banking on the fact that most people do not actually want to cross that divide.