The Nexus Of Privacy looks at the connections between technology, policy, strategy, and justice. We’re also on the fediverse at @[email protected] and @[email protected] (but lemmy.sdf.org is having federation problems so now we’re here)
Yep. I very much agree with all of you. Here’s how I phrased it in Embrace, Extend, and Exploit: Meta’s plan for ActivityPub, Mastodon and the fediverse
Of course, if and when Meta sees the fediverse as a significant threat, they’ll ruthlessly stamp it out.
But right now, they’ve got a huge potential longer-term opportunity to coopt the fediverse as a basis for decentralized surveillance capitalism. It might not work out, of course, but even if it doesn’t keeping a neutered fediverse around might still be useful to Meta as long as it’s not a threat to their dominance (just as Google subsidizes the Firefox browser).
Agreed, and a very good point. “Visible to people on allow-list servers” is very much along the lines of local-only posts (“visible to people only on this server”). I think of it as “scoped” visibility, although leashed or moored might well be a better term.
Exactly. There’s a core disagreement about whether making a public post means consenting to it being used for all purposes without consent (the multiple battles about consent-based search), but relatively few people are confused about whether bad actors will use it without consent.
A very interesting idea! Actually it seems to me there are two interesting ideas here:
endorsements. Something like this (whether it’s from feeler servers or other sources) is clearly needed to make consent-based federation scale. IndieWeb’s Vouch protocol and the “letters of introduction” Erin Shephard discusses in “A better moderation system is possible for the social web” are similar approaches. You could also imagine building endorsement logic on top of an instance catalog like the FediSeer (of The Bad Space) or infrastructure like FIRES.
restricting visibility of a boost to servers the original post is federated with. This is something that’s long overdue in the fediverse! Akkoma’s bubble is a somewhat-similar concept; Bonfire’s boundaries might well support this.
Yep. Meta’s convinced him that this is a huge victory for Mastodon – and a good way for him to achieve his goal of getting Mastodon to 100,000,000 users.
The OP talks about how Meta can get a lot of what they want – including the regulatory aspects – just by saying they’ll integrate with the fediverse, and it’s quite possible that’s all they’ll ever do. But there’s a big potential upside for them if they decided to invest in it … not so much today’s fediverse (I agree about the inflated self-importance of a lot of the commentary – no, they’re not so desperate for content that they’re trying to steal it from the fediverse) but the potential of decentralized surveillance capitalism. So, we shall see.
Right, a post embed that results in anybody visiting your site gets tracked by Meta (whether or not they have an account there).
You’re completely right that there are likely to be major scalability issues, at this point I don’t think anybody fully knows what the implications are, and it’s not getting a lot of discussion. This is part of why Meta’s proceeding slowly and presumably we’ll see a lot of performance work over the next few months to deal with the expected onslaught.
Exactly. XMPP has hundreds of millions of users too (billions of you count WhatsApp’s non-standard version) and Matrix has close to 100 million but we don’t consider them part of the fediverse either.
Not as far as I know.
No, Meta claims that Threads has 100 million monthly active users, the fediverse as a whole has 1.4 - 1.7 million depending on whose statistics you use. Even if they’re exaggerating, it’s still much got a lot more users.
Why would Threads want to do that? Opt-in is better for their users from a privacy and safety perspective, and it’s better for their business because it makes migration harder. And if Threads doesn’t do that, politicians et al care more about reaching a large audience than about pushing Threads to try to change their mind.
That’s the only one that’s currently active as far as I know. https://mastodon.moule.world/@MOULE/110586556696261405 has a bunch of resources including blocklist for other Meta domains as well.
Glad you liked it, I like to put in a treat for people who read all the way to the end!
It’s not a typo but I see what you mean, I meant that it has a lot fewer people in it but it’s not great wording and I’ll fix it. Thanks!
It would be great, but Threads has said that their plans are that people will have to opt in to federation. So if they follow through, why would politicians (or the others you mention) prefer to be on an instance where they only get access to a fraction of Threads’ huge audience?
Yep, I’ve said for a while that if a schism with transitive defederation happens, it’ll be a good thing. There are many fediverses!
That’s a great article. I linked to it in the OP:
The same is true with Google’s adoption and then abandonment of the XMPP protocol, which is also often described as EEE. I don’t think that’s the right way to look at it; for one thing, XMPP is still around, and thanks to adoption by Zoom and others it has hundreds of millions of users – or billions, if you count WhatsApp’a non-standard derivative version. But in any case, whether or not it was EEE, Google didn’t go into it with a goal of killing XMPP. They just wanted to exploit XMPP to address a business problem of making Google Talk successful – and did so, until it wasn’t useful to them any more.
Yes, Mastodon instances can indeed refuse to federate with Threads – you’re not misunderstanding anything. You can track what instances are and aren’t federating at https://fedipact.veganism.social/ (the “FediPact” it mentions is an agreement that hundreds of instances have signed to block Meta). Currenntly, about 40% of instances aren’t federating – but most of the largest instances are.
Some of us do! But on the other hand when I sent out an action on this to a large group of local activists, I didn’t mention the StaSi, because I had a feeling that most people wouldn’t know what it was referring to.