Imagine the PR gaff of having to retrospectively strip titles from a club. All the PL will do is wait for a season where City win the league by 20 points and strip them of 19.
Man city needs a punishment that will actually effect them. A points deduction is worthless, they’ll win the league next year. A fine or transfer ban also won’t work, they have unlimited money and they’re squad is already so strong. They need to be relegated to league two.
They let it get out of hand and now it’s too big to ignore.
You can tell that the thinking early on was that City would just be one more club in the title mix and it might make the league better to have more teams fighting over the title. The hope was clearly that this problem would never arise because the imbalance would never become so pronounced.
This was a very dumb idea. It was obvious that a country would dominate in a league of football clubs. It’s hilarious to me that anybody for a moment thought they wouldn’t. Your favourite sports franchise, your favourite movie studio, your favourite billionaire weirdo - not as powerful as a nation state. Not even close. And that’s vastly more true when it’s a despotic oil state.
‘We’ve got a good crop of youngsters in our academy’ versus ‘They’ve got an Air Force an a seat on the UN’.
‘Our owner got a letter of apology from the PGMOL because of an offside goal given against us’ versus ‘Our owner had eighty people executed today*’.
The nation state owners need to go. And the Premier League is going to have to bite the bullet and deal with the City problem. They should probably also deal with Newcastle before that becomes a problem.
*That was the Saudis, and it was more than eighty. The point is the imbalance.
You do realise the the Premier League tried to stop the Saudis taking over at Newcastle? Delayed it all out, did what they could… Until the government stepped in and pushed it through? It’s fucked mate, utter fucked, it’s much more deeply fucked than we’d like to admit. Who is going to come skipping along and save football and these clubs from despotic regimes? Certainly not the UK government, as we have seen, so who? FIFA? One of the most corrupt sporting organisations on the planet? Absolutely no chance, they’re too busy awarding world cups to these places…
I did know that, and it is completely fucked.
They’re not going to strip titles. As we’ve just seen with Everton the punishment won’t apply to the season they committed the crime.
If they are ever found guilty then, at that point, it’ll apply for the current and/or future seasons.
Lol, you lot are so dramatic. Chill out and go get some fresh air.
Integrity of the game in the mud. 🤷🏻♂️
I don’t think you full understand the City case. They’ve been charged by the PL and it’s been sent to a independent commission to come up with the punishment as per the PL rules. That’s the stage we are in now, there’s an independent commission reviewing the evidence from both sides to ultimately come up with the punishment. The league won’t strip them of the titles, the independent commission will strip them if they see fit to do so.
Another note these charges only refer to seasons between 2009-10 and 2017-18, there could be another investigation for 2018-19 till now but that’s just jurno and social media talk right now.
While I agree it’ll be a PR nightmare for the league, to many people it’s the only way to hold up the ethical standard of the league. The league and commission almost certainly has upmost pressure from league owners (most notably probably LFC owners) and then fans around the world.
Personally don’t see a huge punishment for City like stripped titles. The high priced City lawyers will drag this out for a long time and negotiate the penalty down. No matter what the PL needs to rewrite FFP/sustainability rules, to make it easier for them to investigate but also ensure punishment is taken quicker, and also make it easier for “smaller” clubs to challenge the bigger ones if owners put up some collateral stake.
the ethical standard of the league
Well there you have the problem mate
Even as a city fan I just want to say I appreciate your sentiment in your last paragraph. Something needs to be done to FFP to make it easier for clubs to rise like city did, because FFP really does make it impossible for “smaller” clubs to challenge a title which means that there will never be even footing. Older and more established clubs who spent more in the past will always have the edge.
As for city specifically, I read the CAS judgements and they found nothing financially suspect, even when reviewing the time barred stuff. So I wouldn’t say the process is “deciding upon a punishment” at this point in time as much as it is deciding if a punishment is warranted. I doubt we’ll ever agree on that but I do appreciate you mentioning that things need to change to allow teams to replicate City’s rise in a “fair” way.
Something needs to be done to FFP to make it easier for clubs to rise like city did, because FFP really does make it impossible for “smaller” clubs to challenge a title which means that there will never be even footing
I agree with this… up to a point. And City and Chelsea have gone way past that point.
Impossible for smaller clubs to challenge? Leicester would like a word
I knew Leicester would be brought up here but let’s be honest that’s a pipe dream within a pipe dream that somehow came true.
Weren’t they also dinged by FFP at one point?
Punishment? Don’t they have to first investigate to establish guilt before the punishment is dished out?
Nothing for city lawyers to drag out. This is not a court.
Any delay is 100% on the league.
Man City are fighting this now, whence why no panel has been set
Everything you say makes perfect sense, but I still don’t believe city will ever get docked 10 points. I hope they do, it would be justice, but I’m not convinced we live in that world.
The league and commission almost certainly has upmost pressure from league owners (most notably probably LFC owners)
Liverpool would only get 1 EPL title retrospectively should Shitty be banished to the netherrealm no?
Was more speaking on FSG and their love for FFP and such. It’s widely known they’ve wanted FFP to be enforced
Great response. City and Chelsea will both get points deducted
(most notably probably LFC owners)
Is there evidence to support that LFC ownership have been the most vocal in condemning or calling out Man City’s supposed financial impropriety? I am not aware of this.
No owners have spoken out and I don’t think any will. Was more speaking on FSG and their love for FFP and such. It’s widely known they’ve wanted FFP to be enforced
Is this independent commission known? It will be fun to see city charges dropped and all the members of this commission drive off in their Ferraris.
Man City are fighting the pl in court now over whether the pl can charge them
Only until this is resolved a panel can be formed or not
There’s a lot of sense in what you say. I’ll just add this:
They have rewritten the rules. Clubs now have to submit in full, quarterly (I think) and a final year end by May. The FA has until August to review/approve/charge. Any appeal etc to be wrapped up by Christmas. This prevents the delaying tactic. They also moved the burden of proof to the club more than the FA, and failing to cooperate is considered the same crime, with same punishment.
If we use Sheff Wednesday as a reference point, and Everton, then SW got 12 points reduced to 6 on appeal. City’s 6 ffps for direct investment look broadly like SW’s. Everton look less bad, and they have 10, and I suspect will get 5 on appeal. The Mancini breach is the worst, and will get more than 12 and I doubt will be reduced in appeal. It’s literally cash in brown envelopes bad. So, let’s say 6x6 and 20. That’s a 56 point deduction. Interestingly, that would require 94 points won to stay up, or put another way a very interesting season for everyone. Did someone mention PR? Nobody has been murdered and City will have their destiny in their own hands. That’s good for the product, good for the media, good for the ethics, and, I’d say, good for City.
They will also get big fines, and appeal on severity. They can’t argue against most of the charges for failing to cooperate.
On the question of stripping titles? I can’t see it. Other clubs have had point deductions and they didn’t apply retrospectively. There’s only the Juve precedent and that’s match fixing not ffp.
Someone elsewhere claimed that on being found guilty they could be banned from Europe. I’m not sure that is the case (it might be, I don’t know) but I’d expect UEFA to pressure the FA to do so. And again, no PR issues, really.
I said elsewhere, the biggest real consequence for City is if Pep walks, and/or players aren’t motivated to fight a relegation fight with a title winning performance.
I think if club gets charged and especially if they refuse to cooperate,they should be suspended until it’s solved. That way they’ll make em cooperate with pl, process would go faster and other clubs wouldn’t be so negatively affected,at least in that year of suspension, by wrongdoins of one club.
All the PL will do is wait for a season where City win the league by 20 points and strip them of 19.
Not sure your logic really works there. In that case they’d still have found the current champions of their own competition guilty…
They aren’t being stripped of anything. They may get a token fine and a promise that they will be observed carefully. They might take a points deduction that will push them to 3rd place (at worst).
Everton got slapped because, sadly outside the UK, nobody really cares about them.
City are part and parcel of the Premier League’s international brand. Punishing City would call into question the integrity of the Premier League brand the world over.
Yeah, and because lots of relegated clubs have been putting pressure on them to fine us. We’ve overspend 20 mil on a stadium. That deserves a fine more than any point deduction.
Hi Australian everton supporter here and just going to add that there are many everton supporters in Australia so to say no one cares about everton outside of the UK is not entirely true
I’m a Liverpool supporter in the US and can honestly say I know one City fan and he started supporting them last year because he has terrible taste. I have met hundreds of Everton supporters here and while travelling. Everton has more longtime fans globally than City.
What thoroughly conclusive evidence you’ve presented
In my circles in Perth, I know one City supporter from before they even got bought by the Thai fellow, he even got a MCFC tattoo in Bali in high school.
So while you don’t have a lot of fans, they sure are passionate!
Again some wonderfully conclusive evidence about the number of international fans we have. Because you’ve only met one, we probably only have about… One.
I want City docked points for the past 5 years so that Liverpool can have 2 more titles which we fully deserve having been fiscally prudent
The way football is nowadays, I suspect there aren’t that many clubs fully and truly above board. Every single club will have performed some ‘interesting’ accounting over the past 10-15 years with all of the TV money.
For city, retroactive punishment will create a logistical nightmare. If there is any on field punishment for city, such as a points deduction, we have to expect that it would be added to the following season so they start in the negative. Anything else really just causes an absolute mess for the years preceding and a PR nightmare.
I suspect it will be a hefty fine though. And by hefty, I mean a few million but that’s nothing to city.
You’re right, it would be ridiculous and ultimately fairly meaningless to go back to previous seasons and strip them of past honours. They already had the parties, the open-top buses, the ‘Agueroooooo’ moments, altering the record books years later is no real punishment.
All points deductions are a logistical nightmare and it’s depressing when league positions will become decided as much by matters off the pitch as on it. And relegating the likes of City and Chelsea would just make a nonsense of the Championship for a season giving other teams no hope of automatic promotion.
These are financial crimes, there should be financial punishments. Significant fines - like equivalent to the levels of overspending - maybe even payable to other clubs in the league to help level the playing field - are much better than footballing ones. They gained an advantage by overspending, they should now be disadvantaged financially as a result.
These are financial crimes, there should be financial punishments.
this is a terrible idea. it would either be so small its meaningless, or so large it destroys clubs. ffp isn’t just your oil clubs
I agree. Fine them £1 billion.
And rescind their titles.
Much fairer way of doing things
There’s no way City or Chelsea will receive points deductions. Transfer ban and fine, yes. At most they’ll be ceremonially stripped of a title or two, but that won’t affect the current PL season (or any others moving forward.
Anything that’s stripped will be left vacant, not given to the second place team.
I doubt a title will be stripped but why wouldn’t it go to next? Did for Serie A. I don’t see them being able to claim no one won that year.
Bring the proof. The league is the one who bears that burden. City do not have to prove innocence. Show us the indisputable evidence
Geez surprised you can even watch a game with your head in the sand that deep.
Oh dear. I love football as much as the next man but you do realise it’s not you on trial personally?
Eh? They’ve been charged, so they have been accused of being guilty, now it is very much up to City to prove their innocence.
…and even if never proven, people always knew.
Pua chee bye Man Shitty kanina chao chee bye
I mean sure… but City are guilty.
Everyone knows they’re guilty.
Literally everyone.
It ain’t gonna happen. We all know it. But for the hypothetical hijinks is I hope if they are stripped and we (Liverpool) are awarded the titles, I want us to go full insufferable and do a trophy parade. Peak insufferable shit head stuff. Big sign saying we always knew it was ours. Even get an electric bus and have another sign saying no oil here lahh! On it.