• Ignorhymus@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    For those wondering, the ad there says born to roam. Now, roaming is a loaded word in the UK. The country is a mix of ancient rights of way and private property. And the people who like to exercise their right to walk on ancient rights of way - coastal paths, routes through the countryside - are very attached to those rights. Those rights, being ancient, are also so deeply woven into our statute books as to be nigh on impossible to remove.

    On the other side, you have the landowners. Particularly the rich new landowners who have just bought a massive clifftop property with spectacular views, and who aren’t too happy to see pensioners with flasks of tea and a damp spaniel wandering through their gardens.

    So there has been an ongoing battle between the ‘right to roam’ movement, and landowners. I emigrated years ago, so am not up to date, but I’m pretty sure the right to roam guys still have the upper hand.

    On top of that, you have additional problems related to offroading (the right to roam guys are almost exclusively footpaths and bridle paths). There simply aren’t the massive open tracts of land you can just go driving through that you would find in the US or Oz. British is densely populated and old, so it’s all been divided up. These problems are exemplified by ‘greenlaning’. As I recall it, there were certain routes that were open to offroading, and people used to go and have fun. But then a couple of things happened. You had more of the nimbyism of landowners not wanting people to have fun on their property, and you had some of the walkers and horseridees who decided that they should be the only ones using those routes. There were also some dicks took it to far and either went and completely mashed up some routes, or took other routes that they shouldn’t have, and that brought things to a head, leading to plenty of these routes closing down, and a bunch of pissed off 4x4 guys.

    (Then of course there’s dickhead teenagers on dirt bikes).

    So that’s the story of why the advert got banned - the particular word ‘roam’, and an uneasy relationship between he 4x4 guys and landowners / authorities. As best I remember, at least

    • thepenis_mightier@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      anything that people hasn’t built on generally belongs to the ‘crown’

      That’s the equivalent of state/federal land.

      • GavinMozart@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Crown means its public land. The crown refers to the country as a whole, not the monarchy.

        But I don’t think there is much at all in the UK.

        Over 60% of the UK is crown land. Even where the land is farmed its held in “leasehhold”, meaning they cannot prevent public access.

      • savage_mallard@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It is in Canada. That’s what crown land is. But I don’t think there is much at all in the UK. Almost all the outdoors we think of in the national parks is farmland. Almost everything is privately owned but we still have access rights.

    • Wiggles69@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      you had some of the walkers and horseridees who decided that they should be the only ones using those routes.

      You’d need an awful lot of walkers and horse riders to mash up a trail to the extent a single off road 4WD vehicle would.

      • elbekko@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        At least a 4x4 generally only leaves two tracks. Bikers and horses leave a totally impassable road.

      • Fit_Equivalent3610@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        If you don’t go out when it’s wet it’s not that bad at all, just ban going on most trails when they’re wet, problem solved

        • masterventris@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          just ban going on most trails when they’re wet

          This is the UK we are talking about, they would be shut 354 days of the year!

        • IowsurferYT@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          That has happened a lot now here in the UK. All of the remaining green lanes, at least where I live, are shut in the winter months.

      • Pseudorealizm@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        I think even the poor would be pretty pissed if you drove through their backyard making a mess of the land they take pride in maintaining.

              • tomatoswoop@alien.topB
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                1 year ago

                Alone, yes, but not necessarily if they band together in a large group to represent their interests, and traditionally rambler’s associations and other such groups have had strong connections to the labo​ur movement and s​ociali​st poli​tics for exactly that reason in the UK, and have been able to win certain freedoms (whether that’s about protecting ri​ghts of way across land, or about wor​kers rights, the “apes togethe​r strong” thing does actually have a lot of truth to it)

                My granddad, god rest his soul was very active in his local rambler’s association (and they won a fair few battles against land ow​ners, about keeping public rights of way open, and well signposted).

                You’re right that gover​nments don’t really care about or give anything to the com​mon people out of beneficence, that’s why organisi​ng communities and wor​kplaces is so important

      • bindermichi@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        No. Off-roading in general is not legal as long as it‘s not allowed on a particular private property.

          • reliablesoup@alien.topB
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            1 year ago

            Reddit is fully of young, anxious people, some of whom will even grow up to be rich. I honestly think that what we’re witnessing here is exactly what the eggheads refer to as “atomization” and “free-floating anxiety”. Everyone’s so insecure all the time (sometimes, but not always because of material poverty) that they latch on to the first thing they see that passes for a villain.

            (I’m probably doing a bit of that too, right here, right now.)

        • Extension_One_@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          It’s pointless arguing with someone so deeply ingrained with the victim mentality who has already decided all their problems are due to one particular scapegoat.

      • tomatoswoop@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        … no, not at all?

        You think the hikers and right to roam activists, whose main cause involves taking on landowners and opposing the extension of private property rights over public rights of way, represent “rich people with connections”? Lol

        Similarly in the UK’s “slightly commie old nature enjoyers” vs “4x4 owners” battle, which side do you think is the one with more money, lol

        This isn’t a simple “rich & connected” vs “poor and powerless” battle at all really, more a clash of values (between 2 vague coalitions that contain disparate groups themselves, both rich & poor), but even if you did oversimplify it to that, I think it would as a first order approximation be more like the opposite of the way you’re painting it than the way round you have it there. Generally the automotive lobby is the one representing moneyed interests, & for big 4x4 cars (a luxury good & status item for the upper middle class in the UK) even moreso.

      • James_Vowles@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        You took him explaining right to roam laws and turned it into rich people did this?

        Jesus christ.

      • onyourrite@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        WHAT THE FUCK IS A KILOMETER 🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸

        • Shmokesshweed@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          Nope. Left as soon as I could after I graduated high school.

          I have millions of acres of national forest in my backyard in Washington. Places so remote I could go there on a weekend and see no one until my drive home.