@MagicShel We’re making it much much much much worse, providing direct financial and military aid to a country actively slaughtering tens of thousands and displacing millions to facilitate ethnic cleansing.
It’s not that trump wouldn’t be worse, just they supporting Biden is totally and completely unconscionable. And to do so sacrifices a piece of your soul.
Refusing to stand up to fascism is unconscionable to me.
Then the Democratic Party should consider starting. Instead, they’ve unfailingly pretended that fascists are honorable people interested in serious governance that we should just compromise with in order to get concessions.
Biden isn’t a genocidal monster and those words make you sound pretty unhinged. The fact that one of our close allies has been committing genocide is certainly a problem that we need to address but letting Trump win isn’t going to do Palestinians any favors.
@MagicShel that’s the difference in our understanding there.
You are what you do. And what he has done is send billions of dollars and two carrier groups to back up, by far, the biggest crime against humanity in the 21st century, already beating Iraq and blowing anything else out of the water.
Those carrier groups are there to prevent escalation into a war that would be terrible for everyone including the Palestinians. I can’t believe anyone needs that explained.
The dollars frankly I don’t understand, but I do know that if we want to be able to influence Israel we either need to have a carrot or a stick. Dollars are our soft power. I don’t know the secret agreements and back door deals that were made - I fully agree that from the outside it looks bad, and the government owes us explanations. Though you’ve already said you don’t care what the reasoning is or what those dollars bought, so I guess maybe you aren’t owed that explanation because what would it matter anyway? But the rest of us are owed an explanation of why we sent them a bunch of money. Maybe Israel threatened to carpet bomb the whole area if they didn’t get security guarantees, and maybe it’s worth a little of money to deescalate and give things a chance to calm down. Maybe not, my point is the reasoning matters at least to some of us.
What I do know is America has supported Israel and ignored the Palestinians for decades. This isn’t something Biden did any differently then any other American President. The difference is many democrats are actively and vocally supporting the Palestinians. And Rep. Talib has influence with this administration, but under Trump she would be powerless.
Biden isn’t perfect. America isn’t perfect. We have done awful things and we will again because that’s a fact of geopolitics. Hamas did an awful thing. Israel did many awful things. There are no good guys in this story. But I think we will do far fewer awful things under Biden than Trump. Plus, we need to show the GOP that cozying up to fascists will never help them. Maybe if we send Trump packing hard, they will get the message, but if Trump wins they never will and fascism will be an accepted part of the American political spectrum.
WW2 had far reaching impact decades later and I grew up in it’s shadow. Everything when I was growing up impressed upon me that there is nothing worse than fascism - Star Wars, Indiana Jones, even the Blues Brothers. I saw the effects it had on veterans, and I would spare the next generation the effects of it - particularly the effects of being the evil that we sacrificed so much to defeat. I’m not going to let Trump win while there is anything I can do about it and voting for Biden is about the least violent thing that can be done to stop him.
@MagicShel We’re making it much much much much worse, providing direct financial and military aid to a country actively slaughtering tens of thousands and displacing millions to facilitate ethnic cleansing.
It’s not that trump wouldn’t be worse, just they supporting Biden is totally and completely unconscionable. And to do so sacrifices a piece of your soul.
Refusing to stand up to fascism is unconscionable to me. My grandfather fought a war against it overseas and I’m not about to fail him here.
Then the Democratic Party should consider starting. Instead, they’ve unfailingly pretended that fascists are honorable people interested in serious governance that we should just compromise with in order to get concessions.
No disagreement.
@MagicShel voting for a genocidal monster isn’t standing up to fascism. There is a rot deep in your soul if you’ll let yourself fall that far.
Biden isn’t a genocidal monster and those words make you sound pretty unhinged. The fact that one of our close allies has been committing genocide is certainly a problem that we need to address but letting Trump win isn’t going to do Palestinians any favors.
@MagicShel that’s the difference in our understanding there.
You are what you do. And what he has done is send billions of dollars and two carrier groups to back up, by far, the biggest crime against humanity in the 21st century, already beating Iraq and blowing anything else out of the water.
There’s no excuse I’ll accept for that
Those carrier groups are there to prevent escalation into a war that would be terrible for everyone including the Palestinians. I can’t believe anyone needs that explained.
The dollars frankly I don’t understand, but I do know that if we want to be able to influence Israel we either need to have a carrot or a stick. Dollars are our soft power. I don’t know the secret agreements and back door deals that were made - I fully agree that from the outside it looks bad, and the government owes us explanations. Though you’ve already said you don’t care what the reasoning is or what those dollars bought, so I guess maybe you aren’t owed that explanation because what would it matter anyway? But the rest of us are owed an explanation of why we sent them a bunch of money. Maybe Israel threatened to carpet bomb the whole area if they didn’t get security guarantees, and maybe it’s worth a little of money to deescalate and give things a chance to calm down. Maybe not, my point is the reasoning matters at least to some of us.
What I do know is America has supported Israel and ignored the Palestinians for decades. This isn’t something Biden did any differently then any other American President. The difference is many democrats are actively and vocally supporting the Palestinians. And Rep. Talib has influence with this administration, but under Trump she would be powerless.
Biden isn’t perfect. America isn’t perfect. We have done awful things and we will again because that’s a fact of geopolitics. Hamas did an awful thing. Israel did many awful things. There are no good guys in this story. But I think we will do far fewer awful things under Biden than Trump. Plus, we need to show the GOP that cozying up to fascists will never help them. Maybe if we send Trump packing hard, they will get the message, but if Trump wins they never will and fascism will be an accepted part of the American political spectrum.
WW2 had far reaching impact decades later and I grew up in it’s shadow. Everything when I was growing up impressed upon me that there is nothing worse than fascism - Star Wars, Indiana Jones, even the Blues Brothers. I saw the effects it had on veterans, and I would spare the next generation the effects of it - particularly the effects of being the evil that we sacrificed so much to defeat. I’m not going to let Trump win while there is anything I can do about it and voting for Biden is about the least violent thing that can be done to stop him.