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The people of China are fine. Fuck Xi and the CCP. Taiwan numba one.
China number four!
mambo number 5
TikTok has been an extremely successful propaganda outlet
Previous generations will always be coping about later ones, no matter the year. Millenials and gen z are no different.
I think there is more nuance here. In all my direct interactions with Chinese people in business they have been polite, responsive and intelligent. I still get messages from them long after I left the industry I was in.
The CCP however is a different story. I am opposed to them as much as I am opposed to any person or organization that seeks to usurp or silence an individuals right to self determination. There are certainly domestic threats to that right which are greater than the CCPs.
China and the CPC are as intertwined as America and the Democratic Party or America and the Republican Party. The China of today would not exist without the CPC.
America would exist without either party. People forget that the meaning of each party has shifted throughout the years. Parties have even gone extinct when a viable third party alternative was available. But they aren’t central to American life. More than one third of our population doesn’t even affiliate with a party.
The CCP has done everything in their power to make themselves central to Chinese life. But they are a party and not China itself, even they are replaceable. Taiwan is a good example of how democracy could work within a modern Chinese society. Which is why the CCP wants to bring them to heel.
The last third party to receive more than 20% of the vote was Teddy Roosevelt.
In 1912.
Tell me more about this “viable third party alternative.”
Political parties in the US aren’t monolithic entities that never change or shift positions. Every 30 or 40 years they change and factions can switch sides. The southern strategy saw “Dixiecrats” become Republicans in the 70s and 80s.
Ross Perot won approximately 18 percent of the popular vote in 1992. Once again, parties shifted their policies and absorbed those voters.
I think we are overdue for another major shift and possibly a third party run. Many “Moderate” Republicans are Republicans in name only at this point. Their party has been co-opted by Racists, secessionists, MAGA, Qanon, Evangelicals and other fringe elements. (Whom they freely courted in the past and viewed as useful idiots to further their own goals.)
The business community, fiscal conservatives, NeoCons and moderates aren’t used to being out of power. They are organized and have money. Their goals overlap more than MAGAs. It’s only a matter of time before they realize they no longer control the Republican Party and may never control it again.
If Trump or MAGA acolytes stay in power after 2024 you will probably see a significant fracturing of the Republican Party.
The CPC isn’t a monolithic entity either. While the leader of the party is the most powerful, actual change in the party happens from the bottom-up.
lol. Tell that to the autocrat that consolidated all the power.
Change doesn’t happen in that party unless Xi says so. Same with Russia and Putin.
What evidence is there that Xi consolidated all the power? Is it that he led an anti corruption campaign and has been in power for ten years? Is it that he isn’t directly elected by the people? Because by those standards Angela Merkel would also be a dictator.
Oh sorry, you must have meant the Democratic Party where unelected party insiders (super delegates) chose Clinton to run against Trump despite Sanders polling better in the matchup.
Trump?
Lol no. Xi has eliminated or purged every individual and has gutted every institution that could serve to oppose his reign that there is no one left who can make policy decisions on a national level.
Xi has also killed the messenger so many times that there is no one left who will bring him accurate information.
Bottom level bureaucrats are reduced to making decisions based on what they think Xi wants. The result has been a string of absolute failures wolf warrior diplomacy, the spy balloon, etc.
The CCP and China are what state failure looks like in its early stages.
What evidence is there for this beyond mere speculation? Most articles on Xi from the western press read more like gossip magazines than investigative journalism. They’re full of things like “body language experts” and other fluff but not much else.
The same is true for the “spy balloon” or “wolf warrior diplomacy”. While we don’t know what the balloon’s purpose was, the US has basically admitted that it wasn’t collecting any data. As for “wolf warrior diplomacy” it amounts to minor Chinese state officials being sassy on twitter. There’s no evidence that such behavior was state policy.
Concluding that China is bound to collapse based on this kind of flimsy evidence is so silly.
18% of the vote! And yet, received zero electoral votes.
Hmm. How is that a “valid third-party”? Dude got no votes.
You asked for an example of a third party and I gave you a relatively recent one. Moving the goal posts after my response is just petty.
I also gave you the effects of third parties on American politics. It causes the two main parties to shift their stances or go extinct.
The occupy movements of the early teens didn’t last, nor did it metamorphose into a third party. But it’s effect on politics was felt and galvanized Democrats to oppose austerity.
The lack of a third party doesn’t mean that other views aren’t adopted or incorporated into the two main parties. The lack of a third party is a symptom of our winner take all electoral system.
TLDR: The U.S. does not have a parliamentary system. Don’t expect its political parties to function the same as one.
American society drives the makeup of our parties not the other way around.
The CCP drives the makeup of Chinese society. The Average Chinese person has no voice and no way to influence change besides subtle protest of policy or outright revolution.
Here’s the question, when we talk about China the country, are we talking about the Chinese people, or their government? Because I have very different answers for the two.
I’ve grown up with and worked with Chinese Americans, both from mainland China and Taiwan. I want to see them have freedom of speech and expression and ability to criticize the government, so I have to be adversarial to the CCP. I can’t imagine liking Chinese people and the CCP simultaneously, knowing what the party does – I want the latter reformed so the former can thrive.
I also think there’s a lot of innovation for the human race as a whole if China and the US are rivals, not adversaries. Friendly competition leads to scientific advancements without compromising on joint research and efforts.
The thing is, you can’t really separate the Chinese people from the CCP. Something like 7% of the population are members and the party has very high approval ratings. That’s not just because the CCP are good propagandists either. Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP. As such, opposing the CCP and wanting the Chinese people to thrive may be seen as a highly contradictory perspective to people living in mainland China.
By that logic, it’s the same for usa.
That’s racist and orientalist af. A people and their government are never equated. They’re always separate things. That’s literally sinophobia. Will you tell us that PRC citizens overseas are equal to their government as well, justifying their repression overseas?
How is that racist at all? The comment wasn’t making it out to be a negative thing, or saying that Chinese citizens were somehow wrong by supporting the CCP. I just fail to see how it is racist to point out the fact that the CCP has supporters in China. Seems obvious.
Thankfully I never equated them.
Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP.
Not sure if that explains it all. CCP had high approval ratings also 1950s and 1960s when their policies caused millions of people to starve to death. But sure, they have made some pretty good pro-free market revisions in the last few decades, which has made them float to top of the world. It doesn’t look like it’s going to last for very long, though – their population is changing and they’re still clinging to the obviously wrong communist principles, which makes adapting to changing circumstances slow.
What I don’t understand is what was the point of the civil war, then? If they’re becoming the Republic of China, why call themself communist anymore? Perhaps they should really join Taiwan, and just stop their silly socialist experiment. That’s the peaceful reunification I would like to see.
I don’t think we have any reliable polling data to say what the approval rating of the government was during the Great Leap Forward. However, Mao did lose a lot of influence within the CCP as a consequence. As such I think it’s safe to say there was lots of dissatisfaction at least within the party itself.
As for why the CCP doesn’t drop their communists principles it’s simple. They’re still communists who believe in Marxism-Leninism. They just don’t have a principled aversion to markets as long as they’re useful for raising living standards and economic development.
They do however have an aversion to political liberalization. This was in part informed by what they saw as a failure of the joint market and political reforms happening in Eastern European socialist countries. The CCP’s fear was that political liberalization would empower a nascent capitalist class which could lead to economic disaster. I don’t think they were necessarily wrong in this regard as that’s exactly what happened to Russia only a few years later.
If you want the CCP to stop what you see as a silly socialist experiment you’ll have to give them better reasons to. The CCP isn’t irrational. They’re just working from a different set of assumptions than you are.
I don’t honestly understand the “this group of people is the enemy thing.”
It was never about specific nationalities.
It was always about specific governments.
Maybe young people don’t care about starting a new cold war after the last one went to shit 🤔.
Recent polling from The Economist and YouGov shows the startling difference in Americans’ views of China by age group. Roughly 25% of Americans aged 18 to 44 said they view China as an enemy, compared with about 52% of those 45 and over (see chart). Almost as many young Americans said they view China as “friendly” as those who said the country was an “enemy”. Just 4% of older Americans see China as friendly.
Meanwhile, views of China among partisans are shifting. Republicans have long been more likely than Democrats to view China as an adversary. But both parties have become more hawkish. When Donald Trump took office in 2017, just 10% of Democrats and 20% of Republicans said they believed China to be an enemy. As of last week, 34% of Democrats and 48% of Republicans took this view.
The wording on this is kinda weird, enemy to who?
Do I think China is an enemy of the US? Yes.
Do I think they’re an enemy to me personally and my values? Ehhh… not really. They do stuff I like and stuff I don’t like.
Gotta love the pictures this “articles” come with - see these three bitches in the photo? best friends of China.
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They should really be more wary of China. CCP is extremely authoritarian and scary
Remember: It’s okay when the US does it.
I don’t like the spying USA does any more than you, but China is one of the most authoritarian countries in the world. Maybe you should go live there yourself if you like it so much
most authoritarian countries
In the US, 0.7% of the population is in prison. That’s nearly one out of every hundred citizens and the highest per capita of incarcerated citizens in the world. Higher than Russia, higher than China, higher than North Korea.
Land of the free indeed. Propaganda works.
Does that include the Xinjiang internment camps, and are you really trusting the CCP’s official statistics on anything knowing how badly they lied during the first year of COVID?
Their vocational facilities and re-education centers are a far better way of managing and de-radicalizing extremist groups like the ETIM than fucking bombing them, invading them, and lying about WMDs.
50+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:
…separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.
We appreciate China’s commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang.
The only countries accusing China of mishandling this are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.
QiaoCollective has a detailed timeline and report of Xinjiang related events.
BadEmpanada has an in-depth video essay on the topic with sources in description.
You can also literally just visit Xinjiang and see it for yourself lol, since there’s not much travel restrictions on the region anymore now that covid’s mostly over.
There are tons of Youtube videos doing just that.
Maybe you should go live there yourself if you like it so much
lol
They literally said the stereotypical lib thing lmao
Is that a Lib thing now? When I was growing up in a super rural conservative area I always heard if you don’t like America you’re free to leave. Like progressive change is a cancer or something.
Libs are just conservatives at heart who like to think they’re progressive so yeah that checks out.
Instead of improving our country, these two groups tell you to go elsewhere.
This just in: Kids today aren’t yet full of hate.
Kids in general are less aware.
FIFY
This is also what previous generations said about you btw
Yeah, because I was. Curiously enough, I don’t even need to look at history to condemn what the CCP is doing today.
Doing today, hmm? Like how the evil CPC made China’s CO2 emmissions plateu just last month and are targeting zero emissions by 2060? Or how they’re spearheading cleaner energy this month with the first 4th gen nuclear reactor.
Also them boosting trans rights with a court ruling just last week, and currently installing a new regulation to limit exploitative practices through video games.
How could the CCP do this
Oh, they finally did something about pollution after being one of the top polluters and doing the minimal effort for the past decades to the point that they had people not being able to go outside from all the smog clouds? Props to them for now setting 2060 as the goal when we’ve already surpassed the major climate change tipping points then, despite the fact that they were asked to correct themselves long ago and refused, opting instead for an empty promise way behind schedule to avoid being held accountable for one of the most impactful issues on the table. That’ll do it. And that they’re considering human rights after they tried to hide their concentration camps from international media where they perpetuated genocide, reeducation and slavery? Weird that they’re now promoting nuclear energy after they created a big scathing shit show about Japan’s treated nuclear waste water to manipulate the market while dumping out a lot of their own even more radioactive waste. Wow, they sure changed a lot in the last 5 minutes. Incredible. Next time you’ll tell me that Hitler did a lot of job creation with those gas chambers, huh.
But maybe they should do something about their predatory lending to smaller nations. Or stop trying to actively erase a historical massacre to portray a more favorable image. Maybe stop quietly arresting protesters to silence dissent, because they sure as hell won’t consider freedom of press in their wildest dreams. And maybe reconsider their widespread intellectual property theft while they’re at it. They could consider simply not pouring gasoline on the fire of international conflict for an invasion of a territory that has operated independently just fine to date, for that to create more bloodshed and another international crisis even though they’ve been overly aggressive lately with everyone else. But one can dream.
So much western propaganda here and articles with deliberately missing context lmao.
First off, of course an industrializing nation has to emit pollution, specially one with a 1.5 billion population; every industrialized country has, and Africa will too as it industrializes in the future. The point is China is actually doing something about it now, unlike the west.
China and Africa shouldn’t have to suffer by not industrializing, just because western countries can’t manage their pollution even after doing so.
Their vocational facilities and re-education centers are a far better way of managing and de-radicalizing extremist groups like the ETIM in Xinjiang than fucking bombing them, invading them, and lying about WMDs.
50+ mostly muslim UN states have approved of how China handled this after sending delegates and diplomats to Xinjiang:
…separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.
We appreciate China’s commitment to openness and transparency. China has invited a number of diplomats, international organizations officials and journalist to Xinjiang to witness the progress of the human rights cause and the outcomes of counter-terrorism and deradicalization there. What they saw and heard in Xinjiang completely contradicted what was reported in the media. We call on relevant countries to refrain from employing unfounded charges against China based on unconfirmed information before they visit Xinjiang.
The only countries accusing China of mishandling this are its geopolitical rivals in the west. Muslim countries and the global south side with China on this.
Also, their supposed “debt-trapping” of nations is just a flat-out lie lmao, likely stemming from the actual debt-trapping that the IMF and World Bank from the west do. China hasn’t seized a single asset from a country that’s defaulted on its debt in the 10 years the BRI has been in progress, even forgiving billions of dollars of debt sometimes.
Of course, not every project has been a success. When you’re working on thousands of foreign infrastructure projects (over 3000 so far) some of them are bound to be massive failures. Railways and bridges for example are often not directly profitable, neither in China nor elsewhere.
won’t consider freedom of press
Ah RSF, one of the many anti-China “non-profit” organizations that receives significant funding from the NED, an offshoot of the CIA, and various other imperialist organizations. I’d take any of their claims with a huge grain of salt, specially ones about the west’s geopolitical rivals.
their widespread intellectual property theft
Intellectual property shouldn’t exist in the first place; they only do so megacorporations can patent everything and keep others down. I applaud them for ignoring those; Africa should do the same as it industrializes, the same way the US also blatantly violated intellectual property laws as it was industrializing.
a territory that has operated independently just fine
Aside from the fact that modern Taiwan came to exist by completely genociding all its natives just 40 years ago (think Israel but if they actually managed to kill all Palestinians), I wouldn’t call hosting military from the most war-mongering nation on its geopolitical rival’s borders, and having a US puppet government “just fine”.
What say you about the reeducation camps and social credit score and restriction of travel? What say you about the imprisonment of Xi’s political opponents? My heart goes out to the Chines people, but the Chinese state must go.
Open your eyes.
You can thank Tik Tok that all the kids love and use daily. And China controls the content on it.
Unfortunately, the CPC can’t really control private corporate apps like TikTok abroad. As with the Palestine-Israel conflict on TikTok, it’s not the algorithm, teens are just more pro-Palestine and pro-China.
The Chinese version of the app Douyin is far more strictly regulated though.
The trend is similar to the demographics of who support Palestine and Israel.
The kids are alright.
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I don’t see anyone mad in the comments about this
Propaganda works.
You would have a field day with the comment section for this article on Lemmy.ml lol. I’d love to see someone with more energy than me try to fight some of the idiocy going on over there.
One of my accounts got banned form .ml because I had the nerve to tell the kids from Hexbear that their meme replies were juvenile and cringy.
That sounds more like lemmygrad to me but wouldn’t be surprised tbh. Not a single one of them on that instance is interested in facts or debate, just their little circlejerk. They’ll hit puberty one day tho.
.ml has interesting discussion sometimes and other times just turns into a total circlejerk ime
Yeah, well… .ml lost an account that day. And I have no intention to interact with any communities in that instance. Blocked them.
Just got banned from .ml for providing links of China’s wrongdoings lmaooo
Yeah… that windtunnel can fuck itself. It’ll be gone soon if they ban everyone that disagrees with them.
