Here’s the question, when we talk about China the country, are we talking about the Chinese people, or their government? Because I have very different answers for the two.
I’ve grown up with and worked with Chinese Americans, both from mainland China and Taiwan. I want to see them have freedom of speech and expression and ability to criticize the government, so I have to be adversarial to the CCP. I can’t imagine liking Chinese people and the CCP simultaneously, knowing what the party does – I want the latter reformed so the former can thrive.
I also think there’s a lot of innovation for the human race as a whole if China and the US are rivals, not adversaries. Friendly competition leads to scientific advancements without compromising on joint research and efforts.
The thing is, you can’t really separate the Chinese people from the CCP. Something like 7% of the population are members and the party has very high approval ratings. That’s not just because the CCP are good propagandists either. Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP. As such, opposing the CCP and wanting the Chinese people to thrive may be seen as a highly contradictory perspective to people living in mainland China.
That’s racist and orientalist af. A people and their government are never equated. They’re always separate things. That’s literally sinophobia. Will you tell us that PRC citizens overseas are equal to their government as well, justifying their repression overseas?
How is that racist at all? The comment wasn’t making it out to be a negative thing, or saying that Chinese citizens were somehow wrong by supporting the CCP. I just fail to see how it is racist to point out the fact that the CCP has supporters in China. Seems obvious.
Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP.
Not sure if that explains it all. CCP had high approval ratings also 1950s and 1960s when their policies caused millions of people to starve to death. But sure, they have made some pretty good pro-free market revisions in the last few decades, which has made them float to top of the world. It doesn’t look like it’s going to last for very long, though – their population is changing and they’re still clinging to the obviously wrong communist principles, which makes adapting to changing circumstances slow.
What I don’t understand is what was the point of the civil war, then? If they’re becoming the Republic of China, why call themself communist anymore? Perhaps they should really join Taiwan, and just stop their silly socialist experiment. That’s the peaceful reunification I would like to see.
I don’t think we have any reliable polling data to say what the approval rating of the government was during the Great Leap Forward. However, Mao did lose a lot of influence within the CCP as a consequence. As such I think it’s safe to say there was lots of dissatisfaction at least within the party itself.
As for why the CCP doesn’t drop their communists principles it’s simple. They’re still communists who believe in Marxism-Leninism. They just don’t have a principled aversion to markets as long as they’re useful for raising living standards and economic development.
They do however have an aversion to political liberalization. This was in part informed by what they saw as a failure of the joint market and political reforms happening in Eastern European socialist countries. The CCP’s fear was that political liberalization would empower a nascent capitalist class which could lead to economic disaster. I don’t think they were necessarily wrong in this regard as that’s exactly what happened to Russia only a few years later.
If you want the CCP to stop what you see as a silly socialist experiment you’ll have to give them better reasons to. The CCP isn’t irrational. They’re just working from a different set of assumptions than you are.
Here’s the question, when we talk about China the country, are we talking about the Chinese people, or their government? Because I have very different answers for the two.
I’ve grown up with and worked with Chinese Americans, both from mainland China and Taiwan. I want to see them have freedom of speech and expression and ability to criticize the government, so I have to be adversarial to the CCP. I can’t imagine liking Chinese people and the CCP simultaneously, knowing what the party does – I want the latter reformed so the former can thrive.
I also think there’s a lot of innovation for the human race as a whole if China and the US are rivals, not adversaries. Friendly competition leads to scientific advancements without compromising on joint research and efforts.
The thing is, you can’t really separate the Chinese people from the CCP. Something like 7% of the population are members and the party has very high approval ratings. That’s not just because the CCP are good propagandists either. Rather the living conditions for the average Chinese person have improved dramatically over the course of only a few decades thanks to policy decisions made by the CCP. As such, opposing the CCP and wanting the Chinese people to thrive may be seen as a highly contradictory perspective to people living in mainland China.
By that logic, it’s the same for usa.
That’s racist and orientalist af. A people and their government are never equated. They’re always separate things. That’s literally sinophobia. Will you tell us that PRC citizens overseas are equal to their government as well, justifying their repression overseas?
How is that racist at all? The comment wasn’t making it out to be a negative thing, or saying that Chinese citizens were somehow wrong by supporting the CCP. I just fail to see how it is racist to point out the fact that the CCP has supporters in China. Seems obvious.
Thankfully I never equated them.
Not sure if that explains it all. CCP had high approval ratings also 1950s and 1960s when their policies caused millions of people to starve to death. But sure, they have made some pretty good pro-free market revisions in the last few decades, which has made them float to top of the world. It doesn’t look like it’s going to last for very long, though – their population is changing and they’re still clinging to the obviously wrong communist principles, which makes adapting to changing circumstances slow.
What I don’t understand is what was the point of the civil war, then? If they’re becoming the Republic of China, why call themself communist anymore? Perhaps they should really join Taiwan, and just stop their silly socialist experiment. That’s the peaceful reunification I would like to see.
I don’t think we have any reliable polling data to say what the approval rating of the government was during the Great Leap Forward. However, Mao did lose a lot of influence within the CCP as a consequence. As such I think it’s safe to say there was lots of dissatisfaction at least within the party itself.
As for why the CCP doesn’t drop their communists principles it’s simple. They’re still communists who believe in Marxism-Leninism. They just don’t have a principled aversion to markets as long as they’re useful for raising living standards and economic development.
They do however have an aversion to political liberalization. This was in part informed by what they saw as a failure of the joint market and political reforms happening in Eastern European socialist countries. The CCP’s fear was that political liberalization would empower a nascent capitalist class which could lead to economic disaster. I don’t think they were necessarily wrong in this regard as that’s exactly what happened to Russia only a few years later.
If you want the CCP to stop what you see as a silly socialist experiment you’ll have to give them better reasons to. The CCP isn’t irrational. They’re just working from a different set of assumptions than you are.