• kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
    30·
    4 months ago

    I’m in tech and “computer programmer” has always sounded to me like a grandma phrase. Like how all gaming consoles are referred to as “the Nintendo” or “the game station”.

    • Trailblazing Braille Taser@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      7·
      4 months ago

      That’s funny, plain “programmer” would be my preferred term if it weren’t for the fact that non-tech folks think it sounds like menial work. I’ve landed on “software engineer” because that’s what my employer calls me and other people seem to understand a little bit, too.

      • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
        2·
        4 months ago

        I was hired with the official title “software engineer,” then I was noted in all unofficial org charts as a “SE/DE” (software engineer/data engineer), and recently my boss announced that I have had my title officially changed to “data engineer”. My job functions have not changed the entire time I’ve been here. I write Python, SQL, KQL and Pyspark scripts and have to fuck around with Azure architecture sometimes. So there’s not always clear delineation between these terms, anyway.

        • odium@programming.dev
          1·
          4 months ago

          Lol, are you me? Job application said software engineer. 3 months after I was hired, it changed to data engineer with no changes to the work I do. I wasn’t even notified, just noticed on a random day that the role on my profile on Teams had changed. I also do Python, SQL, and Pyspark scripts, but use AWS instead.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.worldEnglish
          0·
          4 months ago

          I was hired as a Developer and a month or two in they changed our titles to Software Engineer because “It sounds better.” I’d have to say I agree!

      • floofloof@lemmy.caEnglish
        11·
        4 months ago

        Here in Canada you can’t call yourself an engineer unless you are a qualified and licensed engineer. So most people have to call themselves “developer”. When you see someone calling themselves a software engineer it should mean something.

      • marcos@lemmy.world
        5·
        4 months ago

        Yes. And, by the way, “computer” was once the name of a profession, carried out by people.

      • small_crow@lemmy.ca
        3·
        4 months ago

        I remember telling my high school guidance counsellor I was planning on becoming a programmer. She looked at me, head tilted like a confused dog and asked what excited me about Event Programming (as in, planning and scheduling large in-person events).

        That was the first time someone didn’t understand what I did for work, and it was about 5 years before I started doing it.

  • scorpionix@feddit.de
    262·
    4 months ago

    Not engineer.

    At least here in Germany, engineer is a protected profession. Other than that: All of the above.

      • omgitsaheadcrab@sh.itjust.works
        151·
        4 months ago

        Yeah, same in the UK. Really annoyed me that the plumber, electrician… etc were all engineers. In Germany it’s as protected as calling yourself doctor, which ultimately affects how people view the profession and the salaries they command

        • masterspace@lemmy.caEnglish
          6·
          4 months ago

          I mean, it’s a protected term in Canada too but it doesn’t necessarily lead to higher salaries.

          My cousin who’s an electrician made about as much as I did as an electrical engineer, and I left electrical engineering to be a software developer because it paid more. Engineering paid more than being an electrical technician / designer, but not by a huge amount.

        • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
          2·
          4 months ago

          It does not only dictate your professional life/status in Germany, being a doctor, your social as well. Someone I know got a postdoc in germany, no luck finding a place to live until they started asking their german collegues to call and saying “doctor so-and-so is looking for an appartment”. So, he gets one. The guy has a very long full name, so the nametag the landlord is gonna put on the postbox is way to long, but if you cut off the part where it says he is a doctor, it would fit. He insists to cut that part away, the landlord just refuses, says fuck your name and person basically, and cuts off part of his last name instead. Saying you are a doctor gets you first in fucking everything (maybe not lufthansa, then they just say ‘senators’ or something). Extremely class divided social society that.

      • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        4 months ago

        I believe job titles specifically are(were?) considered in exempt / non-exempt status for overtime.

        Why Administrator is in a lot of titles also.

    • rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de
      3·
      4 months ago

      Softwareingenieur darf man sich nennen, wenn man ein mathematisch-naturwissenschaftliches Fach studiert hat, wo Informatik dazugehört. Somit ist Software Engineer oder Softwareingenieur die korrekte Berufsbezeichnung für alle mit einem Bachelor/Master oder höher in Informatik.

    • Jrockwar@feddit.uk
      3·
      4 months ago

      Hmmm. But all the people around me working in software studied multiple years in an Engineering field. In my case, I studied a 5-year industrial engineering and two masters afterwards; I feel very comfortable wearing the “software engineer” or more accurately “robotics engineer” badge.

      • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
        13·
        4 months ago

        During the 2008 recession, a lot of Uber drivers had engineering degrees. I guess we should start calling Uber drivers engineers too.

        • Jrockwar@feddit.uk
          6·
          4 months ago

          No, that’s precisely the opposite of my point. If you drive an Uber, you’re an Uber driver. People are “CEO” or “Judge” despite nobody having a CEO or Judge degree. Your profession is what you do, not what you happened to study in your teens to get there.

    • Gladaed@feddit.de
      2·
      4 months ago

      If you studied a technical science and do coding for that you may be allowed to be called ingenieur.

    • pwalker@discuss.tchncs.de
      2·
      4 months ago

      That is not entirely true. It’s a bit more complicated. Yes it is protected since the 1970s but it’s more of an academic title. You needed to study something that is “mainly” of technological or scientific nature. Basically befire the Bologna reform every student in Tec. Unis/FHs did get the title Diplom-Ingenieur. So the engineer part was literally part of your degree. This of course also true in case you studied IT. So yes there are many who call themselves IT engineers also in Germany. However it’s more of a philosophical question how much software development is actually engineering or rather craftsmanship.

  • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
    20·
    4 months ago

    I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

        • PmMeFrogMemes@lemmy.world
          2·
          4 months ago

          Oh man, I didn’t think that’d work haha… Kind of you to offer but I was recently promoted and wouldn’t feel right leaving now. Partially out of respect for my boss and partially because we are severely understaffed. But seriously, thanks for offering to ask around. Very generous of you to offer your help to a stranger ❤️

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
        1·
        4 months ago

        I’m a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I’m also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
      2·
      4 months ago

      I’m learning that I’m just enough of a front end dev to make a very ugly site. Navigating all the various CSS and JS frameworks feels like pulling teeth.

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
        2·
        4 months ago

        Having a familiarity is absolutely a great thing. The syntax isn’t alien, so, debug and guiding juniors through figuring out why their project isn’t working isn’t too terrible. The typing is probably what drives me crazy the most. It’s just bad and the standard library doesn’t seem to be equipped to handle every type that it can “support” cleanly.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      2·
      4 months ago

      since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon

      Sorry to hear that. I hit the same pothole about 6 months ago. I had been so fine with avoiding JS, but the guys building our admin console broke their build and couldn’t figure out how to fix it. Even worse, then I had to write up best practices for JS

      • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
        2·
        4 months ago

        Yeah. Fortunately, I didn’t have to do the programming. Unfortunately, I had to guide the debug. Happy to help people learn but the language, especially in its typing, is just awful.

  • Croquette@sh.itjust.works
    19·
    4 months ago

    Funny because HR doesn’t know either and its their job. In the US, you just need to slap engineer at the end and you are golden.

  • sunbytes@lemmy.world
    16·
    4 months ago
    • Viewport engineer.
    • Browser-space technician.
    • Microsoft painter-decorator.
    • Inferior decorator.
    • He-who-responds (on the bugs channel).
    • Scope denier.
    • Manager disappointer.
  • AlexWIWA@lemmy.mlEnglish
    16·
    4 months ago

    This is my opinion that is basically a compilation of the coworkers I’ve talked to about the subject.

    Depends on the role. Passed senior level most prefer to be called engineers. Those are the people designing the whole system. Software developers are usually more mid level and figure out the specifics of how to design smaller sections of the system. They cut a lot of the detailed tickets and write a lot of infrastructure code.

    Programmer is usually the juniors who never design much and just take tickets and turn them into code.

    When I say senior, mid level, and junior, I’m referring more to the role that you’re fulfilling that day, and not the overall skill level. Engineers will often step in as programmers for more complicated code.

    We usually accept any of the terms though because it’s very rare for someone to not jump between the various tasks depending on what the active project is. And at some companies they only hire seniors and they perform all roles.

    TL;DR: Every software engineer is a developer and programmer, but not every developer is an engineer, and not every programmer is a developer or engineer.

  • nelly_man@lemmy.worldEnglish
    171·
    4 months ago

    I prefer Software Engineer, mostly because I studied at an engineering school and have a degree in Software Engineering. My actual titles have varied throughout my career, but I overall consider myself a software engineer.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
      2·
      4 months ago

      Same. My current role is most accurately DeOps or DevSecOps - my education actually predates “Software Engineer” but it was a Software degree from an Engineering school, and with a more technical focus than the similar degree from Arts and Sciences. But yes, every time I due process improvement, standards and practices, etc, that makes it “Software Engineer”. And every time I have to explain to developers how their stuff works, yes, I’m “The Engineer”, capitalized

    • DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      2·
      4 months ago

      I’m curious if you’ve looked up whether you’re allowed to call yourself an engineer in some states (US centric of course)? I read years ago that some states really frown on calling yourself an engineer if you aren’t a certain small range of engineers that they have codified (pun intended) in law.

      • Sweetpeaches69@lemmy.world
        7·
        4 months ago

        I think that’s only a civil engineering thing.

        Source: work in the industry, and “Civil Engineer” and “Professional Engineer” are legally protected titles. Other than that, it’s fair game. Like, there are “Design Engineers” in the civil sector that don’t have their Professional Engineer certification.

  • dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world
    15·
    4 months ago

    I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client

    • TheHarpyEagle@lemmy.world
      3·
      4 months ago

      At our company, the person who specializes in that is dubbed Software Architect. Every dev is expected to uphold those values to a certain degree.