inb4 ACTCHUALLY

      • nottheengineer@feddit.de
        181·
        1 year ago

        But the good thing is that it’s usually super easy to fix if something does break. The amount of headaches I had with PPAs and snap are worse than having an arch update break something. You can usually roll back the packages with issues (namely anything from nvidia).

      • AnonTwo@kbin.social
        61·
        1 year ago

        I remember being very frustrated when they rolled out a kernal update this year that broke one of my USB slots.

        I don’t remember anymore which version it was, just that it was very frustrating looking it up to find that it was a known issue but still considered low priority enough that shipping out was fine.

        Edit: after half a year updated everything in arch and 2 of my USB ports still won’t turn on in the default kernel. Gotta remember which one actually works for them if I ever feel like using this laptop…

        • iopq@lemmy.world
          12·
          1 year ago

          Use old versions of software that doesn’t work, new versions of software that does work

          Although it’s only fully possible in NixOS where the deps are not globally installed

    • whileloop@lemmy.world
      42·
      1 year ago

      Since Manjaro is forked from Arch, it would benefit from Arch’s updated drivers, right?

      • thantik@lemmy.world
        311·
        1 year ago

        Manjaro is amazing if you don’t want to bullshit through the hassle of what the Arch installer has become. I understand the point of it is to get you more familiar with the linux system in general, but they had an installer and they ripped it out. Manjaro is basically just pre-configured Arch, so yeah. Despite all the purists “Manjaro isn’t arch!!”…in practice, it basically is.

          • somedaysoon@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, this, and I’m glad to see a level-headed response as to why Manjaro can sometimes be problematic. I would often see a site that listed reasons not to use Manjaro parroted on reddit and it was a fucking joke… like every point was either reaching or ridiculous.

            But what you said is very reasonable. It is also why AUR is disabled by default and it is discouraged to use AUR in Manjaro unless you know exactly what you are doing. Because if you enable AUR in Manjaro there is a good chance that you will run into a dependency issue, and there is another chance that this dependency issues breaks your system.

            With that said, I like Manjaro and have it installed on a couple systems. I think they have one of the best XFCE setups out of the box. And a few years ago when I got my new Legion 5 laptop, Manjaro was the only distro that the trackpad worked on. I tried Fedora and Ubuntu and Mint and PopOS, but none of them worked with it at the time.

    • sosodev@lemmy.world
      23·
      1 year ago

      Uh no? You just need the latest kernel which you can install with one click it you use mainline. You’ll also want the latest version of Mesa which you can through Kisak’s PPA. It should take maybe 10 minutes. The average user is going to spend way more than 10 minutes installing and setting up Arch…

    • LaggyKar@programming.dev
      02·
      1 year ago

      So you go with OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Well tested with OpenQA and a lot less effort than Arch, but still has the latest software and up-to-date drivers.

  • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
    533·
    1 year ago

    With archinstall now being a thing, the only downside to using Arch is the fact that people like OP will call you an elitist because they heard those jokes back in 2015 lol

    • DanielPlainview@lemmy.worldEnglish
      81·
      1 year ago

      Came here to say this. Archinstall is great. Arch is my favorite distro by far. It just works, ia minimal, and has all the software you could ever need.

      • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
        61·
        1 year ago

        I’ll be honest, at this point my main reason for using Arch is prety much just habit, but I will say that whenever I hop on another distro for some reason (usual in a docker container) - I always find myself annoyed at the lack of the AUR - though I understand that distros like NixOS also have comparable solutions.

        But between the install script, the AUR and the Arch Wiki, it’s actually an absurdly user friendly distro these days - it’s odd that it still has the reputation as being some thing that only try-hards would use

        • SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          1·
          1 year ago

          It got its reputation probably because it’s a very minimalist distro by default, and you can configure everything.

          It’s perfect once you set it up to your liking, but it does give you a proverbial gun you can shoot your foot with.

    • kameecoding@lemmy.world
      3·
      1 year ago

      I would argue a ready to go gui installer is much better for causal users and especially for owners of Nvidia cards it will just work. I used to use AntergOs when that died I tried manjaro, but manjaro is ass and broke my system.

      EndeavorOs is my choice now, just an easy install in a few minutes and you are ready to go, I’d argue it’s even more noob friendly than something like Ubuntu. no need for ppa and shit just use yay and get that spotify, discord, TeamViewer whatever going.

      https://endeavouros.com/

      • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 year ago

        It’s not “ready-to-go”, but the AUR does absolutely have GUI installers (Example) - the fact that it’s not pre-installed is by design, afterall if Arch came with a bunch of pre-installed optional tools, then it wouldn’t have most of the benefits (lightweight and minimal by default) that makes Arch worth choosing over other distros. I agree that having it pre-installed would make it more user-friendly, and I definetely wouldn’t argue that it’s the most user friendly distro out there by a mile. My point was simply that it’s now

        A) Easy to install

        B) Easy to find pretty much any package under the sun, in an easy to search and install medium

        C) Easy to find a solution to whatever problem you might be facing, or to find comprehensive instructions on the wiki of how to perform any operation.

        Side note

        especially for owners of Nvidia cards it will just work

        I’m not really sure what you mean by this, I have an nvidia card, and set up my system with proprietary drivers with absolutely no fuss. I know Arch used to have issues with nvidia cards, but I’m not aware of any ongoing problems.

        And yeah I’ve got nothing against Arch-Forks, I think they’re great for anyone who just wants something out of the box. I used Manjaro for years (but like you, left after one too many issues)

  • NickSterling@startrek.websiteEnglish
    331·
    1 year ago

    I’m a big fan of EndeavourOS. I’ve done a manual install of Arch enough times I understand what it’s doing and I don’t care to do it again. Endeavour is configured well enough for my needs.

    • Bankenstein@feddit.de
      19·
      1 year ago

      This supports my claim that EndeavourOS is a just-works custom Arch install, and a brilliant one at that.

    • kamenoko@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      I did an arch from scratch install, it worked, I liked it, and then I installed Endeavor and loved it. That’s the difference.

    • null@slrpnk.net
      1·
      1 year ago

      Same, I’ve done Arch, it was fun. The grub issue borked my system so I hopped to Endeavour and haven’t looked back.

      There’s plenty of little things it sets up by default (like pacman tweaks) that I’d do in my Arch setup anyways, so it genuinely just saves time for me at this point.

  • vsis@feddit.clEnglish
    301·
    1 year ago

    Sorry, it’s not about being better, it’s about having fun and fitting my specific needs. In the end, Arch is not widely used in the industry, therefore is not really that good.

    Installing arch, gentoo, slackware or even better: LFS is like having a project car: You are not doing it for the performance alone. You are doing it because you learn a lot while having fun.

    I use Arch, btw.

  • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.world
    29·
    1 year ago

    Elitism and gatekeeping is stupid. That said, learning is not. That said, some of us don’t have time to learn how to install linux “from scratch” or even something resembling “from scratch”. That said, I’ll see myself out.

  • Jamie@jamie.moe
    24·
    1 year ago

    Depends on the user’s needs. If you need bleeding edge software, like for gaming, a just works distro can be more work. I loved using Linux Mint, but trying to use the latest kernel, drivers, wine version, and whatever else on a stable release distro becomes pain fairly quickly.

    • thepianistfroggollum@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
      4·
      1 year ago

      In case you didn’t know, you can get Mint’s Cinnamon desktop on other Debian distros. You used to be able to do it on RHEL, but last I checked the project was abandoned.

      • Jamie@jamie.moe
        2·
        1 year ago

        When I originally moved to Arch, I had a 1:1 clone of my Mint experience. I installed Cinnamon and had backed up Mint’s themes to just put them into the proper place again. Aside from not installing a number of applications on Mint that I didn’t often use, there was no difference in UI at all.

        I only swapped off Cinnamon because I wanted to test other compositors to try and resolve my screen tearing issues which were probably actually NVIDIA’s fault. These days I’m on KDE Plasma and don’t get screen tearing anymore.

  • Ooops@kbin.social
    243·
    1 year ago

    Okay, we won’t tell them…

    And we also won’t tell you that Arch actually is one in the category of “it just works”, so you can keep parroting memes.

    • limelight79@lemm.ee
      5·
      1 year ago

      I used to spend hours compiling my Slackware kernel to contain only the things I needed.

      It was a lot of wasted hours…

    • faintwhenfree@lemmus.orgEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Oh it is, when I was in uni I had the time of my life with arch, now once I’m working, married and juggling few other interests and suddenly, I have so little time to actually build exactly the way I like it in arch, and I’ve resorted to picking a just works distro on my machines. And I feel the learning curve had also flattened out for me, more effort I put now, less I learn. So I understand even enthusiasts at some point in life may choose to just go the less work route.

    • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 year ago

      It’s fun for a while, but when you’re a few years, or decades in, you don’t want to dick around with your OS, you just want to use it and mostly forget about it.

      Yes, writing modelines for X was (kind of) fun. I don’t miss it though.

  • SoapyYogurt82@lemm.eeEnglish
    19·
    1 year ago

    I’ve been using Linux for years. Good thing people have so many different options and your distro choice is ultimately your own.

    Fuck anyone who makes the tired old “true Scotsman” argument in this context.

  • berg@lemm.ee
    12·
    1 year ago

    I use Arch for the AUR (e.g. lazyness)… The wiki is great as well.

    • aberrate_junior_beatnik@midwest.socialEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      The AUR is the reason I don’t use Arch. It’s a huge pain in the ass and the opposite of lazy. I truly don’t understand this comment.

      Maybe I’m misunderstanding the point of the AUR, but my understanding of it is that it fills a similar role as PPAs/third party repos in debian/ubuntu. To use the AUR, you have to first:

      1. Install base-devel.
      2. Install an AUR helper (unless you want to do all this fully manually). But the AUR helpers are themselves on the the AUR so you have to learn to use it and go through all these steps yourself at least once.

      Then, for every package you have to:

      1. Download the package build file. (The AUR helper can do this for you)
      2. Review the package build file. AUR helper tools don’t let you skip this step, despite it being mostly security theater.
      3. Install the build dependencies. (The AUR helper can do this for you)
      4. Compile the software on your own machine. (There are some binary packages on the AUR, but it seems most are source packages). This takes time and replicates work, wasting electricity. This step must be done as a normal user. None of the tools I found will de-escalate privileges if you are already superuser for the build step.
      5. Install the resulting package using pacman, as a superuser. Note that if you have an AUR helper, you have install sudo and run as a user that has sudo privileges.

      Then, every time you want to upgrade the software, you have to do it all again.

      Admittedly, this is not a ton of work. But having to do it for every package and every upgrade is a very real hassle, when most of the time I just want to be using my computer.

      Contrast this to a PPA/third party repo in debian/ubuntu.

      1. Search for the repository.
      2. Copy/paste the commands to enable it.
      3. apt update && apt install package

      … and you’re done. You get seamless automatic upgrades. There’s no compilation or need to install extra build dependencies. It’s so much easier.

      I truly do not get why Arch users put up with the AUR.

      • CriticalMiss@lemmy.world
        2·
        1 year ago

        the AUR is a catch-all scenario. Looking for a PPA to add is a nightmare. Every time I set up a new machine (yes yes i know ansible exists but i do this rarely) i need to add the docker repos each time and its so annoying to repeat this with every software u need. with AUR i yay -S the package i need and it installs.

      • berg@lemm.ee
        1·
        1 year ago

        Just use yay. But fair enough, it’s not everyones cup of tea.

  • U de Recife@literature.cafe
    175·
    1 year ago

    I read the arch elitists as a slur directed to the arch user. So in my arch-user brain, that became akin to a prejudiced label, like ‘ageism’ or ‘ableism’. Is there a kind of ‘archism’?

    Yes, I had to put some work to have my computer running. But that was so long ago that I don’t even remember when or how it was. So now that statistic is screwed. I don’t think about my install 99% of the time (I do think about it when I topgrade it weekly).

    But I do get it. This is supposed to be a joke, and an easy one. As my comment reveals, I’m not the target audience. If I was fuming, I would be Tom on that bottom picture. Maybe I woke up in a more philosophical mood and got myself carried away by my initial question. I don’t know.

    For the poster, I want to wish them a wonderful day. Thanks for the thought-provoking meme you shared.

    • happy_camper@lemmy.world
      9·
      1 year ago

      This is going to sound weird, but hear me out; I’ve gotten so very unused to the concept of comments that don’t really serve a purpose, or form one cohesive whole. There’s no cheap jabs, no witty one liner. No great philosophy or instruction, not even any content filled with the poster’s passion for the topic they’re discussing. It’s just so…everyday, common.

      Oh how I’ve missed this slow kind of internet, where content is added perhaps weekly, and the discussions around it are just fleeting thoughts of passersby, the technical possibility to respond being the only real invitation to reply at all. A stark and permanent reminder that none of this really matters, and there’s a life to live outside this screen. This whole reddit fiasco has perhaps been one of the greatest things to have happened to my online life.

      Re arch,–because at this point I feel almost like trespassing without acknowledging the topic before I derailed my train of thought–I could never wrap my head around the hours needed and pages of wikis read to come to the same destination already offered out of the box by so many other distros. To me, an OS is just a baseline for other tools that I need. If using one specific distro gets me into my tools faster, without having to pour hours into installing them, then it’s a no brainer to me to just go out and use that distro. I could change them visually, but really the icons and the colors shown in nautilus (or whichever prepackaged alternative) are of no significance to me.

      Maybe I’m getting old. I used to love spending hours just to fix and move minuscule things on my devices. Nowadays, I just pick whatever will take the least time to get stuff done while causing me the fewest headaches, which is what sitting at a computer has become for me anyway.

      • U de Recife@literature.cafe
        2·
        1 year ago

        Oh, now I’m excited. Thank you for engaging.

        You make a great point. Why be slave to a tool, right? If the box is just the way to get to what you really need to do, you aim at what you want to do and not the box. So, setting up Arch Linux, in that sense, is a bad investment. I’m ok with that.

        Now let’s think about it this way. Because I set up my box the hard way, whenever the box fails for some reason, I’m better equipped to find what’s wrong with it. Since I lost the of fear of dirtying my hands to achieve what I need, I wear the mechanic jumper on and I go about doing what is need to get it going again. Setting the box, in this sense, was an investment in myself. I now have the knowledge. And we all know that from France is Bacon.

        So both things can be true. You are right; I am right. So now the question is: why the cheap joke? And you’ve answered already in the first paragraph of your comment.

        Anyway, thank you for bringing more food for our thought table. It has been a wonderful meal so far.

  • people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    111·
    1 year ago

    It is as easy to install Arch nowadays as any other distro. Current Arch ISOs come with an easy TUI installer built-in called archinstall, and if you select any modern DE you get GUI tools to manage everything from drivers to the kernel as well.

    But I do agree about the effortlessness ready-to-use distros like Mint bring. It’s like living in a dormitory as against living in your own apartment - there is less customizability but then you also don’t have to worry about little things like cleaning and supplies and maintenance.

  • UnculturedSwine@lemmy.world
    10·
    1 year ago

    I’ve met a few arch users and none of them give a shit what anyone else runs although they will totally talk your ear off if your ask.

    • tinysalamander@lemmy.world
      2·
      1 year ago

      I use Arch for my desktop and a container or two just for funsies. My website runs on Arch actually and never had had any issues with either that or my desktop. Debian is what I typically use though for my containers like Plex, photoprism, etc. I’ve heard people say Debian can be harder than Arch. I’m still mostly a noob so idk fit certain but I’ve come across things where Debian didn’t work but Arch did. Thought it was interesting.

  • Machinist@lemmy.worldEnglish
    10·
    1 year ago

    Been using Linux for around 20yrs. Mostly Ubuntu derivatives. Lots of Xubuntu cause I’m not spending money on fancy hardware that I don’t need. Just grab what’s laying around and use it. Got a 8yr old Chromebook I need to convert.

    Tinylinux or something similar on a '95ish laptop once to read ebooks and play with BBS for shits and giggles around 2010. Kali Linux or some such when playing with TOR. Mainline Ubuntu to build a home media server about a decade ago.

    Been doing a lot with Raspberry Pi Os lite lately as I’ve built a home media server.

    I just Google shit until it works.

    They all mostly work.