• disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It doesn’t need to be an alternative. It’s a really effective way to regulate capitalism by standardizing and socializing private industries like education, police, fire, roads, internet access, healthcare, etc.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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        7 months ago

        Socialism is the workers collectively owning the means of production, everything else is just details. (Well, the anti-heirarchy bit is important too, especially to keep the means from falling into something that isn’t just capitalism with extra steps, but complicated)

        It is innately opposed to capitalism as a result. What it isn’t innately opposed to is a market economy.

        • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Socialized industries, like the ones stated above, are collectively paid for by all citizens and provided to all citizens equally. You don’t pay every time you need the police because their salaries are socialized by taxes. It’s an effective way to ensure quality of life for all citizens, with payments proportional to their income. Adding industries to tax socialization is an effective way to bring balance to capitalism, and improve the quality of life for vulnerable members of society, without the need of a full system overhaul.

          • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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            7 months ago

            If power remains with the capitalist class, and industry continues to be organized around their whim, you will not achieve meaningful reform, except in response to a threat, which will be taken away when that threat diminishes. FDR didn’t do the New Deal because he was secretly had socialist beliefs despite his family, but because he was old money buying guillotine insurance.

            • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I was clarifying the difference between checking capitalism with socialism, and a socialist economy. You seemed to think socialism cannot be integrated into capitalism. Did my explanation help you understand the difference now?

              • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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                7 months ago

                What you are describing is social democracy, a subset of capitalism. That is not socialism integrated into capitalism, because once again, power remains with the capitalist class.

                • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  So you agree that socialization, that is currently in place in capitalist nations, can mitigate the imbalance that capitalism creates? For example: people with more land pay more school taxes, regardless of how many children of theirs attend school.

                  My point is socializing more industries, like healthcare, would improve the lives of many poor people at the expense of those with more income. Do you see how that redistributes wealth?

                  • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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                    7 months ago

                    My point that you seem to miss is that under capitalism, capitalists only allow such reforms when their power is threatened, and under capitalism, such reforms are removed when the threat is removed.

                    Do you not see that leaving the capitalists in power tends towards a system that benefits the capitalists at the expense of everyone else?

                    That every capitalist country has cut away at benefits over the last 30 years?

                    Why would you fight to leave the capitalists in power?

            • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Socialism does not need to be regulated by a government. It’s a form of economy. However, we currently socialize many industries in a capitalist nation, and by socializing more industries, we can improve the lives of poor people at the expense of the wealthy, effectively keeping capitalism more equitable.

              • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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                7 months ago

                It’s okay to be a social democrat, buddy, welfare states are perfectly acceptable forms of ideological liberalism.

                One might even call it a step on the path to actual socialism. Someone should write a book about these transitionary states, perhaps leading to the eventual withering of the state entirely.

                • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  What do you propose as an alternative way to address the wealth inequality without completely redesigning capitalism?