If a topic keeps coming up no matter how much you try to censor it, consider that it’s not going away. Some changes are long overdue.
Q: How do you know someone is vegan?
A: Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.
hahaha so true, except when its not.
How do you know an animal abuser is in the room? Don’t worry, they either won’t shut up about bacon, or they’ll make the same bland anti-vegan jokes that were old 20+ years ago.
reads username
These kinds of jokes are only funny if there is a kernel of truth to them. But no one talks about bacon unpromted.
But no one talks about bacon unpromted.
Kevin’s wife does. His agent too.
Speaking of, did you know that my Bacon Number is 3?
I was in a movie with Henning Mikkelsen > the dad of Mads Mikkelsen > in King Arthur with Ray Stevenson > in Jayne Mansfield’s Car with Kevin Bacon.
Edit: fixed bizarre autocorrect of “Kevin” to “Levon” 😄
I consume the web in 4 languages. Even BEFORE going vegan I saw unprompted meat comments on literally any video/recepie, in those 4 languages, that didn’t have meat on it from vegan/healthy creators. For years. I can bet you 69k tons of my own spit you will find similar comments yourself if you look out for them rn.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure these people are trolls.
But have you every actually seen anyone in real life just randomly talk to you about bacon or meat as a dietary choice out of the blue? I haven’t.
I think the key difference is that there is hardly anyone that sees eating meat as definining trait of their personality or some moral position. It’s just food and not something you center your life around. That’s very different for a good portion of vegans.
Even the people who center their life around food don’t talk about it unprompted.
That’s definitely untrue. Carnists never shut up about bacon.
And are these carnists in the room with us right now?
Bacon.
😐
You’re fighting the good fight, don’t worry about the pushback. If you have a choice, regular meat-eating in Western society is one of the most selfish, deluded things a person can do and future generations (if we even make it that far) will look back on those people, myself included, the same way we look at antivaxxers.
Guess I’ll consume some more meat while I can then
Genuine question: how do you see this response as different than rednecks in lifted trucks saying things like “guess I’ll roll more coal for every Prius I see”?
Well I ofcourse wont be increasing how much I eat just because of some very vocal random vegans. Just wanted to write an equally belligerent message.
Then let me rephrase my question again, how is your original reply any different than rednecks in lifted trucks who say “Well, I’m gonna have to roll as much coal as I can until it’s illegal,” when people point out the direct environmental harm that their cars have on the environment? The effects of the meat industry w/r/t climate change are well-established and indefensible.
It’s okay to acknowledge that there are some major hurdles for many people with switching to a meatless or meat-reductive diet (I even pointed out that I’m in no way a vegan or vegetarian in my top comment), but your smug response to the very real concerns of the meat industry as “welp, guess I’ve just got to eat as much meat as possible before it’s illegal or kills us all hurr hurr” comes across as incredibly ignorant and conservative. If I’m misunderstanding the message of your reply, please correct me, but I really don’t think I am.
You do realize these are two separate groups of mods for each sub right?
There is no monolithic “Lemmy Mods” or even “Lemmy Admins”.
If a topic keeps coming up no matter how much you try to censor it, consider that it’s not going away. Some changes are long overdue.
With a topic so white hot that it can’t be ignored you should consider starting @VeganMemes
I don’t like the fact that vegans are always pushed into forming echochambers. Everybody else needs to take a hard look and recognize that maybe not abusing animals isn’t so radical after all.
Lmao Vegans can’t even stand being in a community with other Vegans.
Oh damn lol
they totally can actually. i get along completely fine with vegan and non-vegan ppl in my life. why cant u?
I dont like the fact that I don’t post anything about my balanced diet but vegans always have to virtue signal their “better ways”
There is no shortage of resources to help a person transition.
Yeah see this right here, nobody is looking for your advice on how to go vegan because we don’t care about your diet and you shouldn’t flame people about their’s.
You were banned for being a tool, not being vegan. Get it straight.
I agree with you. However for future reference: veganism ≠ plant based diet. It’s more nuanced than that. Not all vegans stick to plant based food and not all plant based people are vegans. Hence, diet is not the main attribute of veganism.
A more educated way of being dismissive is I don’t care about your morals or philosophy or ethics or lifestyle or worldview or principles.
Something y’all need to realise is that commenting “Abusing animals is literally H*tler and you should be publicly executed for eating a chickenburger” is not going to turn someone vegan. Go look for smarter ways, god damn it.
And something y’all need to realise that 90% of vegans don’t think like that.
Read OP’s comments. OP does think like that which is exactly the problem.
I come here for the memes, not to be berated for being an “animal abuser”. Memes are supposed to be lighthearted.
I have no problem with vegans. I have problems with militant vegans like OP. Just like I have a problem with anyone trying to radically shove their beliefs down my throat, no matter what topic it might involve.
90% of the vegans I encounter are the preachy ones making posts online. The vegans that aren’t like that don’t usually shout about being vegan and call for the death of “carnists” (BTW: there already is a word for meat eater so I don’t know why they had to make another one).
I prefer “bloodmouth”
I imagine that 90% aren’t getting their memes deleted.
The ones that do are really fucking loud and make the rest of you look bad. I’m in the same boat, being an atheist.
Isnt that what literally happens everywhere all the time in different context? ‘arabs beat their wives they are evil’, ‘indigenous people take halucinogenic drugs they are evil’, ‘russians kill and rape civilians they are evil’. Usually it is the strong that force their beliefs on the minorities, fortunately you cant force people to eat meat by law.
I’ve never understood why vegans, the ones the vast majority agree are doing something at least good (even if you don’t understand it’s a moral obligation), are the ones that have to cater to the genocidal masses.
Stop and think for a second, imagine you live in a wild, wild world where the vegan position is actually correct. Imagine that you’re a vegan, and those around you are actually supporting an unjustified animal holocaust. Then think about how your critique of vegans comes off. It’s the genocidal maniacs complaining about how they’re treated unfairly on the internet because sometimes someone attacks their delicate sensibilities.
It’s not my responsibility to engage with you in such a way that makes you a better person. Your own failings are your own, and my failings are my own. My failings are I sometimes make someone on the internet a bit sad, and yours are participating in a market demanding tens of billions of animal deaths every year, a quantitative level of suffering we’ve never seen before.
Just stop and think for a second. We’re talking about posting in meme communities. Meme communities are for lighthearted jokes, not serious discussions and berating people.
I think Christianity does a lot of harm to the world. But posting anti-Christian memes in a generic meme community is in incredibly poor taste, no matter how valid I feel about my views.
Dark humor is a real thing, and it’s fine and even cathartic for a lot of people. Joking about fascists, genocide-enablers, etc. is something some people find in poor taste, while others find it cathartic. Neither is wrong.
Because acting like a self righteous douchebag turns people off and hurts your movement. That’s counterproductive.
It’s more counterproductive to be a non-vegan and try to convince nobody. I’ve had a good deal of success convincing people to go vegan. There are definitely vegans that are more successful than me, but you want to know who is always less successful? Non-vegans who rage online about vegans.
They should be the focus of our criticism, both in their own actions, and even as a broader strategy for enacting change.
I can get behind being vegan, but something I can’t get behind is people annoying the crap out of others for not being vegan. Leaves a bad taste for the whole vegan community
Yeah, causing other beings suffering is a jerk thing to do.
What leaves a bad taste for the vegan community is when a vegan tries to coddle carnists because they’re afraid of not fitting in. Animal abuse is shameful, and people should be confronted and shamed for their abuses.
I get what you’re saying, but the reality is if you are trying to do good, it doesn’t matter how “right” you are if you are a dick about it.
Take Doctor Ignaz Semmelweis, for example. He worked hard and found a way to dramatically reduce deaths of women in childbirth (and tons of others besides) by washing hands after autopsies. Instead of trying to convince other doctors and influence the medical culture, he confronted and shamed other doctors, even to the point the doctors who he had gotten to start washing their hands stopped. Could he have caught more flies with honey than vinegar? Probably. But he was right, so what did it matter the method he used?
What mattered is hand-washing didn’t get adopted. But I’m sure being right offered him some comfort when he was dying of sepsis in a mental asylum. Not to mention the women who died of infection.
The point is, do you want to Be Right, or do you want to do good? Because all this makes it sound like you want to Be Right.
What an apt comparison
So you’re saying carnists are the baby killers in this metaphor? Yeah, I’m not sure you’re making a good point about catching flies with honey while saying the flies/baby killers have their heads so far up their asses and are so stupid that they have to be tricked into doing the right thing.
Well that answers that, doesn’t it.
Then there’s your answer. Your memes get deleted and your comments get down voted because you aren’t trying to do any good, you’re just trying to flaunt how Right and morally superior you are.
Huh? They’re not my memes. I’m not OP. I just think your metaphor is contrary to your point.
What’s with the vegan hate? Leave that shit at Reddit.
Nobody really hates vegans specifically, idgaf what you eat. But when they go holier-than-thou about my choice of calories I’m gonna block.
Mr. Militant is an obvious troll account and shouldn’t be taken seriously
is an obvious troll account
is an extremely common tactic for silencing a voice.
You block who you want. Don’t try to affect my block list.
There is no ethical consumption under Capitalism, so jot that down.
While that is true, it ignores the fact that not all consumption is equally unethical.
There is no ethical consumption under a system that takes resources from people by force. Consent legitimizes economic interaction.
I never consented to being born.
Not what that meannnnnnnns someone eat this kulak
I literally almost never eat meat, i just enjoy cheese and butter, the dairy alternatives haven’t caught up to the alternative meats yet. I used to love cooking and eating steak (used to make a mean Steak Diane), but haven’t in years due to how terrible beef farming is for the environment. If I’m given free food that would go to waste without me eating it I’ll eat meat, but only if their is no veggie alternative. There is literally so much fuxking human suffering in the world to care about and mediate before we should spend all our time and energy worrying about animal suffering. If humanity doesnt even have class conciousness, how can you expect it to have the empathetic capacity to care about animal suffering, when it doesnt give a damn aboht human suffering. And yes there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism.
Bro you don’t get to say “But have you considered that the cow torturers are being exploited of the value of their labor?!?!?” and pretend it’s praxis.
Like, sure, but contributing to both isn’t an answer.
They quite literally are being exploited of their labor value, and have one of the grossest most disgusting jobs in modern society.
Sure. How does buying the meat help?
I literally dont buy meat lol
I didn’t say you did.
I said “How does buying the meat help.”
Wtf?
It doesnt. Whats your point?
Yes so let’s continue finding the genocide of billions of sentient beings that can feel pain and don’t want to die to be ground up and turned into fucking burger.
Animals all over there earth eat each other constantly, often while the meal is still alive. Grow up.
I don’t use lions as my moral compass otherwise I would be eating toddlers.
You’ve never tried toddler meat?! You’re missing out there!
I’ll assume you’re not someone who’s ever said “eat the rich” then
Animals do it for survival. Humans do it for fun. By your logic, should we legalize murder because animals of the same species kill each other without consequences?
This fckn argument shows how brainwashed we as a society are. You didnt even think for 0.01s before posting this, but you did anyway because it is branded into your brain.
The problem is the scale at which we do it. I don’t have a problem with small and ethical farms killing some animals to sell or use themselves, but I don’t remember lions breeding their prey into slavery, injecting them with chemicals, and turning them into bigmacs millions of times over.
Also corporate industrial waste that throws away hundreds of pounds like it’s nothing. But that’s a different argument from eating meat.
Saying that scale is the problem is the epitome of collectivism. The individualist approach sees the moral landscape as the experience of the individual.
In collectivist terms, which cannot help expressing these things in terms of numbers, the individualist view can be expressed as “one is too many”.
But in individualist terms, it’s not about numbers at all. It’s about pain, pleasure, hope, fear, sadness, anger, etc.
This concept of “well anything over fifteen thousand is too many”, drawing a line between numbers and calling that line the divider between good and bad, is a sure path to evil.
This viewpoint is valid as long as you agree you aren’t morally or intellectually superior to a fish.
Well, actually, many fish are obligate carnivores, so they don’t have a choice, so maybe more like a rat or a bear.
They don’t want to die to be ground up into burger, and they don’t want its opposite either.
A right to life is most appropriate for any conscious being which benefits emotionally from that right. This requires:
- conception of the future
- desire to live
- comprehension of what the possession of a recognized right to life does to the previous two
“No ethical consumption under capitalism” says nothing about the abstaining from consumption.
Veganism is like religion. As long as you keep it to yourself I couldn’t care less. But if you make it your personality or proselytize about it then I’ll probably think it’s fun to make fun of you for it.
Even when you’re right it’s kind of on you to present your message in a way people will be receptive to
If someone is being a bigot, should they not be shamed for it? Why should I feel like I have to tip-toe around animal abusers? You’re the one doing the wrong thing. Would you adopt a vegan lifestyle if I presented my message in the way you approved of?
I’m already a vegetarian, but yeah, I think you can definitely have a shot at converting people if you appeal to their values and don’t attack them personally. I have a buddy who converted after watching a documentary because he’s an enviromentalist and the documentary talked about the environmental harm that comes from the livestock industry.
Baby steps, maybe just start by giving peope some easy and delicious vegetarian meals. I’m not even vegetarian but around 30 percent of my meals are vegetarian. Granted, I’m Mexican and we have a lot of really good vegetarian meals but still.
It seems like you want people to examine their long held beliefs and customs, adopt your view that they are harmful and unethical, and change their behavior to match yours. A change that may have specific hurdles unknown to you for every individual.
Humans, being social animals, don’t typically react with reason to things that they percieve to be antagonistic. They tend to mirror hostility and are most likely to fight or disengage when facing an opponent, and cleave to the safety of the groups that accept them.
Just or not, the act of starting an interaction sets the tone. You’re completely justified in attacking villains and shaming them, but when you throw a devil costume on someone I don’t think you should be surprised when you get pitchforked.
Sometimes it’s just venting, looking at vegancirclejerk groups/forums. Not every comment from a vegan about veganism is an attempt at activism, sometimes we’re just fed up with carnist bullshit and vent. If a carnist sees it and it makes them think, cool, but that’s not always the goal.
If someone is being a bigot, should they not be shamed for it
Absolutely.
Why should I feel like I have to tip-toe around animal abusers?
Nice of you to use your own bigotry as an example to illustrate what people should be shamed for.
Would you adopt a vegan lifestyle if I presented my message in the way you approved of?
Depends: would I have to adopt the religious fundamentalist level holier than thou bigotry as part of the lifestyle? Because I actually prefer not to be an insufferable ass to those that don’t deserve it.
Assuming you’re not trolling, yes. The backfire effect is a proven psychologically studied phenomenon. Arguing at people with facts and logic and aggression tends to reinforce their original beliefs. https://effectiviology.com/backfire-effect-facts-dont-change-minds/
Ironically, telling you this will likely not convince you due to said effect.
Sorry, but the backfire effect hasn’t actually been proven, even under favorable circumstances. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7462781/
Ironically, telling you this will likely not convince you due to said effect.
Noooo how dare you prove me wrong!
Lol thanks for the info.
So, are we hoping this gets deleted as well to keep the tradition alive, or is this hopefully going to change moderation? I’m confused on how to feel about this.
I’m just going to keep posting anti animal abuse content and eventually enough people are going to do the same until it becomes too hard to ignore.
No. You’re delusional to think that “eventually” is ever going to become reality. Not tomorrow, not in your whole lifetime.
You’re not hard to ignore–actually, you’re pretty easy to ignore at proven by both groups of moderators.
It’s not hard to ignore. I ignore lots of stuff on Lemmy. There are many topics where there is no point to say what I think since people have strong opinions and won’t change their minds.
With time you will also learn that posting things on social media doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.
You come from a good place but unfortunately you can’t change what people do in their lives. Like at all. Nothing.
I ignore like 80+ NSFW communities, there’s a whole button for it. Super easy.
I think you’re forgetting that we can just block you and never see any of your posts again.
I see this confusion elsewhere. Political can mean both “ripe for ideological arguments that drown out anything else” and “relating to [US] government and political parties”
Its a venn diagram often. But I can see why some communities don’t want the same predictable “vegans are assholes”/“well meat eaters hate the planet” rehashing all the time.
Its so loud and weird I often think it’s astro turfed. I haven’t met an annoying vegan in decades. And most omnivores I know want to eat less meat. It’s a rancorous debate that seems to only exist online.
Aren’t there different mods for each community? What was the meme that was deleted?
Dang, gelato sounds good to be honest.
Removed by mod
Got you tagged as asshole now.
Not happening. Go vegan.
I’ll have you know that for the past 16 years of my life i have subsumed off of nothing but raw puppy and avacado and i can now summon lightning, fly, and I have telekinesis
