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“I can’t install an app because a dependency depends on another dependency that I already have installed but in ever so slightly the wrong way, but I have another app installed which depends on this dependency being installed the way it is now, so I’ll have to compile the app from source instead and tweak the config file to work with my version of this dependency, but I also can’t compile the app because of the dev environment dependencies.”
Can I introduce you to our lord and savior Flatpak?
In which distro does that work?
All
This is their official site, you can unofficially run it on almost any distro since they all are Linux based after all.
NixOS be like: “lol”
How do people still get stuck in dependency hell?
“Oh good, I found a program that does exactly what I need, now I just need to add this weird-ass, mysterious repository…”
I’ve never had a problem with AUR packages (except for someone once forgetting to update the checksums but that was easy to fix)
Force force force
system refuses to boot
sudo boot --forceSudo is such a blessing to this world
I swear to god I installed Ubuntu the other week, it failed the apt upgrade and after a reboot it just loaded into Phoenix terminal… No idea what happened I just sighed and reinstalled a fresh copy.
Yup. It’s moments like these that I’m thankful I set up a separate home partition
if you were still in the 90s sure…
Appimage/Flatpak ring any bell?
The goose can’t say anything because its sound drivers mysteriously stopped working randomly after rebooting.
I remember I installed a Debian OS once years ago and it updated and broke its own repositories or something like that.
I also think they are missing, “jump through hoops to install some software and fix those issues on your own.”
I feel this pain… Every so often I install Linux hoping this is the year it will be easy… And then I try to install something simple as a password manager I used to use on windows and 5h later I finally figure it out after stackoverflow and googling… But then I’m just exhausted…
It just goes along with the mentality of the Lemmy community. The idea that everything FOSS and what they dictate is not mainstream is better in all ways.
I made a comment awhile back about how Lemmy users tend to have this r/notlikeothergirls mentality. That they know something the average user doesn’t because they can talk about FOSS, privacy, and security. In reality a lot of users don’t understand how that works at all.
Privacy here is technically a nightmare. You jump in a server without knowing what data is visible on that server and you are relying on the security of the person/people who is hosting that server.
There seems to be this idea of, “if I think it’s mainstream it’s just not as good.”
Truth is Linux is fantastic, Mozilla is also great, open source is also great but it doesn’t mean it is better by default in every way.
Look at Linux phones vs Android and iOS. Even people dictating privacy are still using modded versions of Android like Graphene OS because it works.
If you want some of the best Android security on the device physically you go with Pixel. Doesn’t matter how you feel about privacy. Same goes for iPhone.
Windows may be clunky but it does a lot of things right in regards to security as well. Doesn’t matter how you feel about Windows. Microsoft absolutely takes security of the system and how that security is distributed seriously.
Linux fantastic if you really want full control of your system and a great way to learn about those systems when you have to fix it if it breaks.
FOSS is also nice I hope we never lose hold of FOSS but that doesn’t make a paid product terrible either. Take Sync and Jerboa as examples. Jerboa is FOSS and Activity PUB is FOSS and so is Lemmy. But when you compare features and UI. Jerboa is stomped by Sync IMO and I will pay money for something that works really well.
Anyways I digress.
Sir, this is Wendy’s…
Just kidding, I had to do it to ya 😅
whats this 2001?
And then you reboot again and it mysteriously works again for no reason
I thought Linux never needed to restart 🤔🤔🤔
Linux servers never need to restart. They also probably don’t need sound drivers
ALSA moment
And even if he could talk, he’s too busy thinking of the beautiful house of cards that is his systemd config.
We need about 300 ducks in this picture bashing each other because each one thinks it it superior.
I feel like the distro wars are mostly over. Unless you are using Manjaro like some idiot /s
Arch btw
Or Linux Mint like some 5-dimensional giga brain
Wait. Who wins?
Fedora or Arch, considering it’s on the Steam Deck.
It’s like saying that when you enter a store with a good selection, there is a war between all the available items.
Linux - “I can’t hotplug”
Or
Linux - “I can’t do fractional scaling”
Or
Linux - “ so you want secure boot, a graphics card and full disk encryption, well here’s a wiki based on the last version that might work, fuck tpm while we are at it”
They all have their niche and strengths/weakensses
Fractional scalling works fine for me. Am I doing something wrong? How do I break it?
It’s a global setting, not per monitor or per setup and also quite gimped. Also on Wayland, on my couple of setups. It’s sucks ass.
I have never had a problem with hotplugging or fractional scaling
Try an egpu or thunderbolt dock.
I used one for a long time with no issues.
Linux - I hope you don’t need to print anything because CUPS works intermittently at best.
Yeah that depends on the printer to be sure. But the common denominator there is printers fucking suck. Trying printing across AD domains or having usable point and print in windows without just saying fuck it and removing the print nightmare mitigation via regkey.
I use windows at work and I can say…fuck printers in general
I have had less trouble printing on Linux than on Windows. YMMV.
Weird, I have literally never had any issues with CUPS, in environments where Windows completely failed due to the drivers being for an older version or unsigned or such
Yeah I ran cups from when the distros first started pushing for it hard and it always just worked at the office.
Recently at home my wife’s been complaining about air print not working well, so I decided to throw CUPS into a docker and have her use that as the interface. I don’t know if it’s my Wi-Fi network my printer or what but I’ve been fighting it for a solid week it’ll work for a print or two maybe three and then nothing. Nope sorry that printer’s not reachable anymore. Meanwhile all the windows boxes print to it just fine.
I never had printers behave well under windows either though
But that is because they are printers, and printers are gremlins that make sure to keep you off your work whenever they can.
Seriously, it is because printers need to convert analog to digital to analog, which is crazy difficult to get right.
It’s a little known fact, that Linux only got to where it is, fueled by the rage against printers that gave birth to the GPL.
This is actually the problem. It detects my printers immediately but often fails to print.
like…no
HDR
Fedora has literally all of this, out of the box. I mean so does Pop_OS!, but we don’t talk about Pop_OS!
Wait, why don’t we talk about Pop!_OS? I like Pop!_OS
Woah there! You’re presenting facts and logic to this circlejerk community!
My personal favorite
Linux -“ batteries are made to be drained fast”
Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and saviour, PopOS?
Haha. I have. It’s awesome. But systemd boot is a victim of lack of secure boot.
On the one hand. The lack of grub fucking with the windows boot sector is awesome. But the lack of secure boot is kinda annoying. Especially if you dual boot.
I just installed grub because LINUX. grub-customizer does a good job of keeping my menuentries consistent between updates.
rEFInd or bust
My laptop on battery lasts about 6 to 7 hours on Linux. It’s about an hour shorter than Windows but nowhere near “drained fast” territory.
Now… if I use X11 that’s a whole other story! Somehow the battery life is cut in half because of higher GPU usage, and I still can’t figure out what causes it.
what an absolute reddit-tier comment
Wow there! This user shared personal experiences with GNU/Linux that you refer to as facts and logic to propogate even more circlejerk!
Anyone who says windows can’t do X isn’t trying hard enough.
…Or doesn’t need to try so hard.
Because their OS isn’t constantly fighting against them.
I want to drag windows while left/right clicking and holding the windows buttons. I also want non shit virtual desktops. Guess I’m not trying hard enough.
Try running an old binary on Linux.
Try running a new binary on Linux
You’ll need a library that your distro doesn’t have up to date so you had to edit your apt list and then that library won’t load because it needs some other library that didn’t get updated to work with your architecture for some reason so you have to compile it yourself
The lack of binary compatibility is one of many things holding Linux back from mainstream adoption. Some say this is a good thing, but the reality is that not everything is open-source.
Try a rolling release distro
Appimages solve for this, but are underutilized
Do I need to if I can recompile?
Not everything is open-source.
Yeah because Linux doesn’t have hair pulling dependency issues. I love Linux, but come on folks.
What’s this 1998?
It’s been less than a month since trying to run a server that was too old made me wish for death on Ubuntu.
Ah, the other day I updated and both vim and emacs broke! Another update and vim was working in a few minutes, then emacs the next day. But still, I was quite surprised. Maybe I’d have to learn Nano!!
What’s there to learn with nano?
About a thousandth of what there is to learn with Micro, I guess.
I don’t think there’s really anything to learn with nano, the key bindings for control are all on the bottom and to enter text you just type like normal. It’s overall very simple, very easy to use and also doesn’t take up much memory.
Same as with vim: how to exit 😆
Nano shows how on the bottom of the screen. ^X iirc.
Have you heard of nix, can’t happen there
^^ nix gang. Imagine being afraid to update your system
Dude, Nix is amazing. Like, want to update? No problem. Want to install a new WM? No problem. Switching from GNOME to KDE? Done.
Like, not only is it crazy stable, it makes everything as easy as editing line a in a file.
Love Nix.
Circlejerking brings smugness.
But its even worse than just smugness.
It is unjustified smugness. If Linux was soooooo much better than every other OS, it should be the dominant OS by now. But it’s not. Not even close.
Cue up the “WeLl ThAt’S BeCaUsE iT iSn’T PrEiNsTaLlEd” comments.
I am a dev, and I love (some) linux. I use windows too. But I don’t allow any OS to ruin my day or dictate the course of my life by its mere existence lol sometimes I really hate the tuxbro culture tbh
Ah yes, because the only thing that has ever mattered is merit. There is not one single instance in history of a thing with more merit losing out. Nope, no siree.
If something has more merit than the other, it would have wider adoption than Linux does now.
The problem is that Linuxes merit is spread all over the different distros. One may have a good way to handle updates, while the other works with all sorts of hardware, yet an other can be completely handled through GUI without any command line necessary.
For Linux to have more merit than Windows, it needs all of that combined in one package. Until then, it really doesn’t have the merit you think it has.
But that’s just not how merit works, things that work better and are better often don’t win out. Not because they are bad but because other things spread faster. The best organism is not the the longest lived one, but the one that reproduces faster.
If this is at the top of my lemmy all, the chances of lemmy going mainstream are slim.
Between this and the shit memes, I don’t know what hope we have
I’d bet reddit was just as cringe to start
This is the start. we are the early adopters
and that’s a bad thing…?
Go back to Reddit
um ACKSHUALLY you can disable Windows Update competely by setting group policies to disable automatic updates and specify a custom URL for Windows Update and point it to nothing. There a few other local group policies you can configure to further prevent updates, just open the Local Group Policy Editor and go to Computer/Administrative Templates/Windows/Windows Update (or something like that, look for Windows Update under Computer Administrative Templates).
I know this because literally yesterday I had to undo all of that so I could download something from the Microsoft Store (doing this also prevent MS Store apps from downloading)
All the hustle for the issue that does not exist on Linux distros.
If you were to throw all Windows users onto Linux starting tomorrow… the vast majority will be running the version that was first installed, forever.
Windows update was, long ago, a manual process. The majority of users literally never updated. The current method of opt-out-with-effort is honestly the best solution out there for these types of users.
And I guarantee you, if the majority of Linux users weren’t power users, the same would soon be the case for popular linux distros.
Pop os does give you a fairly visible pop up that there are new updates and you Just need to Click on it and then Click update. If it works on android it should work here. In theory. Like you said too many power users to realisticly check
Well… my PopOS does not report new updates. I have to go to the “store”(Pop_shop) and install updates manually (which I do every few weeks).
Installing “Operating System Updates” is not always a smooth operation: the window downloads 1 update and crashes (disappears).
Probably the best is just to use command line (sudo apt) but thn i have to type the password which is annoying.
Thats apps not system upgrades we are talking about and even then there is a little number on the shop icon with the Number of updates Available.
But Yes typing sudo apt update(or upgrade im not realy sure right now ) followed by flatpak update is way easier, but much less clear for non technical users who are extremly scared of cmd for some reason.
I’m pretty sure that without updating to a decently recent version, you can’t install any new packages on some Linux distros.
If all they ever use it for is internet, and email within their browser, why would that matter to them?
My parents turn their computer on maybe once a week? They sit down, use the browser to pay bills, maybe answer an email, then turn it off. They have not installed anything for years. They would virtually never run into something forcing them to update. Hell, they wouldn’t even know if their browser was out of date.
Because internet.
Hackers discover new vulnerabilities in old software every year. The moment an E-mail comes in that uses an E-mail exploit that hiijacks the domain for their bill payment site, they get screwed. Even if they don’t have anything worth stealing, hackers may then use their relatively unused computer as a bot in their global botnets. 1 million of those users, and it can be used to, say, DDOS Lemmy.
The only time it’s okay to give up on updates is if your computer is never connected to the internet.
You’re missing my point. Why would they care about not being able to install any new software when they don’t install new software as is.
I don’t understand your sentence. Who is talking about intentionally installing any software?
I am not referring to them opening an E-mail and reading a request to “Please install this important but suspicious package”. I’m talking about them opening a strange but possibly normal E-mail, and BAM - the content of the message abuses a Z-Sort Address Buffer Exploit invented in the year 2018, patched in the year 2018 by Windows, but not downloaded by them, ever. This exploit then remotely installs whatever without them ever knowing. Even if they never put useful information in that computer, they’re at least part of a botnet that victimizes DDOS targets.
Installing relevant dependencies is part of package installation. I mean the installation is initiated by user, he doesn’t really care how many packages will be installed.
What’s bothering people is when user is being forced to update when user didn’t have the intent to do it.
See, you said it yourself, the majority never updates anyway. The problem here is security updates. I’m not sure, but probably Windows has a lot more of those then Linux itself. So Windows users should update to keep themselves “relatively” safe (telemetry doesn’t go anywhere). But on Linux if there is a kernel update, then you can run an update in the background and restart whenever you need to. The will be no additional time waisted after you restart the machine (unlike some other OS).
Because the 2 minutes it takes to update after you shut down your computer for the night is such a hassle?
It depends on the user. My machine is on non-stop, because I always need that instant ability to do anything (I am a dev). It is a hustle if you have some work going on and your OS tells you that it will be forced to update itself (restart the machine) no matter what. This is the default behavior on Windows and without trickery you can’t disable it.
What, so you do not sleep? Why not reboot the moment you go to bed?
It is bad practice to keep any sort of computer on all the time.
It is the default behaviour because otherwise there will be people who never install updates or reboot their computer, but then complain to Microsoft that their computer broke.
You should blame them, not Microsoft.
You see, all non-root things start to work after you log in (including Android). So, not only that I have to restart my machine, but also wait for the login screen and authenticate myself. Then lock the user to see the big clock (I need it). That’s why it’s not just reboot and go to sleep.
A lot of the time I can’t finish my stuff before bed so I have to leave everything as it is. It’s normal for developers, but it’s not common for regular users (I think).
Again, even if I need to reboot, it will take 1-2 minutes and I can continue to use my machine. You cannot expect such a quick update-reboot from Windows.
Why would you even what to stop an update? Genuine question, I’ve never had that problem (except when Linux mint got an update for virtual machine pushed to desktop users, breaking their DE).
because its a universal backdoor pushing god knows what to your system
I don’t know why you asking me since I don’t stop updates. You mean prevent OS from auto updating itself? Probably because it can be annoying waiting “you don’t know how long” for your OS to update + it will continue updating on boot, so you can’t use your machine right away. There is also problem of force updating: https://mander.xyz/comment/2012361.
Sorry, most have replied to the wrong comment.
Agreed, Linux is better, but still good to know how to work with Windows
My internet is trash so I use a program to regulate what can use internet and at what speeds. Turns out windows updates don’t happen when they can’t access the internet, big success.
How… could an update happen if it can’t get the update? O.o
Can’t windows natively do that anyway?
Group Policy is unavailable on Home versions.
The biggest problem with (GNU/)Linux is just there is no unified platform, and every distribution just wastes time on reinventing the wheel. And if you need to do something more advanced stuff than browsing the web or reading e-mails, you eventually encounter some silly problem where you need to copy random commands you found on the internet, because there’s literally no other way to configure anything except some very basic stuff like internet connection settings or wallpaper.
I personally don’t see any progress on UX in the last 10-15 years, and some DE’s even go backwards (GNOME), where you need to install an extension just to get desktop icons working, which should be a built-in feature.
The only thing that happens to improve UX lately is the fact that you can easily install flatpaks/snaps, so at least developers don’t need to waste time to repackage their apps for hundreds of different distributions, and users don’t need to hit their head whenever they encounter a dependency error. These flatpaks/snaps are not without their problems of course but still, it’s a single step in the right direction.
The stuff that you are configuring via console commands is the stuff that other OS doesn’t allow you to configure at all
Yeah for example mouse scroll speed acceleation…
Oh wait…
Well where is it? :D :D :D.
I thought you happened to have the ONE device in the world that has a linux propriatery driver where you can adjust it, but no xd. You don’t have that option either :D .
Hold my beer! You need Plasma Wayland but no special mouse or device driver, my mouse has no features.
Okay, this is actually interesting. Are you on libinput? Afaik libinput simply doesn’t have this feature. This is not about the DE, your mouse probably happens to have a better proprietary driver.
Oh, you mean the numerical value of acceleration. Yeah, doesn’t look like this is here out of the box.
Welp, literally unplayable then.No I meant SCROLLING speed
I miss Mac OS X 😢
The biggest problem with (GNU/)Linux is just there is no unified platform,
biggest strength of the platform imho
which should be a built-in feature.
why should it? It’s pretty clear that GNOME does it’s own thing than copy the rest of the OSs. They do copy some stuff though. And at least you can install extensions and the extensions that exist are pretty cool, even if I just run vanilla GNOME.
I’d rather have an beautiful and functional app tray than (ugh) icons on my desktop, thank you very much.
What’s wrong with copying random commands from the internet? For me that’s the fun part.
Because for most people a computer is not a platform of self realization. Even for people who use the computer FOR self realization. For most people a computer is a tool. A means to an end. Trying to make the computer do things it not something most people want to do AT ALL.
One of my favorite Linux memories was going on to IRC and asking how to fix my wifi. Like an hour later some guy sent me a patch and told me how to recompile the driver and my Internet worked. It was really cool.
Seeing so many Linux memes here on Lemmy has made me start to consider Linux in the future… I can’t use it for work, but maybe on an older computer or tablet.
The other day I used my PC without Internet (cable not long enough in current location) and I tried logging into my windows SSD and it just wouldn’t let me.
It denied me access to my own computer because I didn’t have a long enough Ethernet cable, which I didn’t even need for the work I needed to get done.
It’s stuff like that which makes me so glad that I’m on Linux now.
My desktop has also never suited me so well, nor looked so pretty! The customizability of Linux goes WAY WAY DEEP. From desktop themes, fonts, layouts to kernel-level customization.
Unless you are on a domain computer, you will always be able to login on Windows. Even if you don’t have internet.
And if you are on a domain computer, then that is for security reasons they don’t let you. Which is how it is supposed to be in a working environment.
If you argue against Windows, please use actual arguments instead of made up ones.
Switching to Linux was one of the best decisions I ever made. I did dual-boot for several years, though.
The thing that hooked me was all of the gorgeous screenshots people would post on 4chan and other image boards. Especially those terminals! The Linux desktops looked like something out of a Hollywood hacker film. In contrast, Windows had CMD.EXE, which was an ugly, clunky mess that hadn’t been updated in 20 years. I swear I could feel a slight delay between when I pressed the key and the letter appeared on the screen. I wouldn’t want to use that for anything.
The windows Terminal exists and it’s actually nice. Yeah, Linux is very good for many reasons, but Windows still got a lot of good things going for it. Most people won’t find their use of either to be different, except in installing accessories. The absolute unit that is windows support for just about any accessory that comes out is unmatched.
For a few examples, wireless Xbox gamepads, HP printers, webcams that require proprietary software, some of those professional audio setups.
I know that Linux has a lot going for it too, especially in the freedom of choice in how the operating system works and runs, as well as how the desktop environment looks and feels, but let’s not pretend Windows has not improved since Windows 7.
The windows Terminal exists and it’s actually nice.
Ah, okay. According to Wikipedia, that came out 13 years after I started using Linux. I’ve never seen it, much less used it.
Windows has improved a ton in the last 13 years.
its worth it, i now finally have a job that has me using linux even at work. paradise.
Definitely. Your old PC will likely run better than it ever has in your lifetime, so long as you can get the correct drivers…
Won’t run on tablets. Not in any useful way anyway.
And don’t drink the kool aid. It’s great for some things. But it’s trading a set of problems for a different set of problems.
It runs on tablets and there are specific distros made for tablets with improved support and features. There are also linux-only tablets being sold.
And I don’t see what problems you’re trading for, ad I at least never really had any Problem on Linux that I couldn’t fix in some way.
Won’t run on tablets. Not in any useful way anyway.
They sell Linux tablets, though. They’re called PineTabs.
I was actually considering a Pinetab 2 for my next tablet a few months ago, but the fact that they didn’t even have a working wifi driver (and AFAIK still don’t) gave me the distinct impression that Linux tablets are currently still far from being suitable for regular users.
Man I like Linux, but I find it to much of a hassle for me. Whenever something is broken it can be such a pain to fix.
I still haven’t found a fix for my sound. My laptop (Dell XPS 15 9500) has normal speakers and separate subwoofers, but the driver doesn’t know it so it only uses the normal speakers. So my audio is so shit compared to windows, no bass at all. The fix I found for the 9510 doesn’t work for mine. It sucks, because that is a deal breaker for me.
Hmm i on the other hand found it easier to fix shit on Linux since usualy somoene Will give you a line to copy and paste into cmd whereas on windows there is a ton of very cryptic menus to navigate through.
But then again everything is made for Windows by deafult so sometimes there are issues like your where stuff dosent work beacuse someone forgot Linux exist.
And the system usually at least tells you what’s wrong, as opposed to all the other systems that just send you off with a cryptic hex “fuck you” code or just “something went wrong” (because that’s more user friendly, don’t you know?).
I’ve been using Linux for almost 30 years and I still don’t use it as my desktop. There are just too many little things that don’t work or are a hassle day to day. It’s great for messing around but unless you’re spending all of your time in a web browser or a command line, it’s just not worth it when I have real work to do. It’s been about 5 years since I tried a desktop version so maybe it warrants another look. But, I doubt it. Desktop is just not a priority for open source.
On the other hand, when it comes to servers Linux is always my number 1 choice. I run several relatively high demand services with up times measured in months and sometimes years.
Whereas I’m here typing from my daily driver oneplus 6 running arch 😁
up times measured in months and sometimes years
Don’t believe in installing kernel updates, eh? And even userland updates are easier if you’re free to reboot afterwards.
If it’s not broken or connected to the Internet, don’t fix it.
Have you tried running “pavucontrol” and changing the outputs?
Android with root: lmao uninstall System UI
Why the F does my Google pixel think uninstalling the YouTube app will destabilize earth’s orbit?
Just root it
Unless you get a Verizon one, then you are shit out of luck
I could root it, I just haven’t yet because I’m learning the Android system.
Unrooted android: uninstall system UI using ADB Shell 🗿
Nope,you can only disable them for your user
Misconception, the apk in retained for a system wipe, but the app itself is unsinstalled.
