• Amaltheamannen@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    People fail to realize that socialism isn’t just an ideology but a process. It involves looking back at previous attempts and learning from their mistakes and improving.

    • Zyansheep@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Is every ideology also a process where people learn from their past attempts at achieving the ideology?

        • sab@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I think it’s important to distinguish socialism and Marxism here, since you’re referring pretty specifically to Marxist theory.

          That said, you’re not wrong - Marx postulates that history moves through a continuous fight between classes, and that on average we move towards a more equal society over time as a result of this fight. The fall of the monarchy was the result of class struggle, but so was the fall of the Soviet union; the Bolsheviks had just replaced the ruling elite, walking on two legs in Orwells terms. In this sense, every revolution could be understood under the logic af Marxism, as “the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”.

          But then we’re speaking about a Marxist understanding of history, not a socialist ideal for society.

          • NathanielThomas@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Marx postulates that history moves through a continuous fight between classes, and that on average we move towards a more equal society over time as a result of this fight

            We’ve been backsliding heavily since the 50s. I mean, things might be better than the industrial revolution but wealth inequality is even worse.

            • sab@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It doesn’t need to be a unidirectional process - things get worse, the proletariat revolts, and they get better. Then things get worse again, and they revolt again. Eventually we reach a stable point where things are good enough for the proletariat to stop revolting - and that would be the communist society.

              That said, while I largely subscribe to a Marxist understanding of history, I don’t personally find historical determinism very convincing. Marx’ theory might even have been a self-defeating prophesy, as it taught the ruling classes the mechanisms of history it needed to defeat in order to stay in power. The American right wing might not be fans of Marx, but they for sure ripped a page from his book to understand the importance of union busting.

            • postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I’d argue the internet was a major opportunity towards distributed knowledge and coordinated social action.

              But that peaked in the early 2000s and the tide has been receeding ever since.

              The latest developments indicate more and more corporate enshitification is coming.

    • Nemesis@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It should also be noted that socialism or communism for that matter have never been implemented in practice. What we‘ve had so far were either just totalitarian regimes or a mixed systems. Mixed systems that tended to be more socialist than capitalist were destroyed by the USA before they had any chance of showing any results. Socialism ever working anywhere in the world would endanger the top 1%‘s wealth and status in the US since people would start demanding change and that’s exactly what the rich don’t want.

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Hey, you cut it out with that education! How are people supposed to falsly believe that socialism is China or Russia or Vuvuzela if you go around explaining how it’s not?