Which begs the question then of what use is killing the prisoners if it doesn’t stop them and prevents their future use in barter for Palestinians held by Israel.
One could say showing they mean it but the zionist regime already knows they mean it and don’t care. Casualties are a part of settler operations and programs and they know and accept this and such casualties are used to manufacture consent for further brutality against the victims of the settlers and the organizers of this program know and understand this even if their people do not and would actually want to negotiate in order to save the lives of their fellow settlers (and that’s important, if the regime is seen as having settler blood on their hands it causes discontent and anger at it from other settlers who in the western sense do have an expectation their government goes above and beyond to save them and protect them).
I do wonder if the Palestinian cause wouldn’t at this point better be served by backing down on the threats of killing hostages and simply letting Israel kill them in bombings and ground operations. There are enough sympathetic voices in the west that I don’t think they could entirely cover it up as being stuff the Palestinians did and it would further tar the zionist regime in parts of the international community.
Materially speaking, killing the hostages they have might feel good, might even be just, but it won’t advance their cause as much IMO as letting Israel kill them or failing that retaining them alive to barter in future.
One might object that solidarity with the Palestinian people is impotent, that it doesn’t stop the genocide or get them their land back so far. And fair point. But I guess I’m saying I think there is a value to being seen as morally superior. You can’t ever be seen as clean as revolutionaries using violence by the west but you can be seen as understood by many other countries and peoples without much understanding of the situation, it can in the long-run perhaps make it harder for the zionist occupation of Palestine to gain normal relations with Arab countries, can increase pressure and the threat Israel feels of intervention. And making it so that the Israeli hands are bloodied not just with Palestinian blood but with Jewish settler blood as well does give them a certain position diplomatically. It does give certain countries more room to maneuver and say hey there’s some nuance here.
I don’t know though. I really don’t. Obviously if Gaza begins to fall things shift very much back in favor of the stated plan. I just hope against hopes the IDF fails badly. I don’t think they’re going to get any help. The US has sent their military there to assure of that and Syria is in no position to do anything, Iran knows Israel already is itching for an excuse to destroy them and honestly could use nuclear weapons to do so with the excuse their existence was being threatened. I just don’t know that anyone can help the people of Gaza. It feels awful watching this.
Oh and of course solidarity with Palestine! Solidarity with the people of Gaza!
If I was Palestinian I wouldn’t count on restraint being able to sway the minds of the baying racists who rules the west to do anything that would make a material difference on the ground in Palestine. And even if sparing the POW’s could actually somehow stop the Zionist regime’s current campaign of indiscriminate terror the question remains what would follow. More of the same slow-moving genocide done with the vocal approval of the so-called civilised west.
I also don’t believe the resistance counted on the POW’s being able to protect Palestinians as human shields. It was worth a try but the settler regime’s low regard for human life, even of it’s own population is well understood and publicly proclaimed in policies like the Hannibal doctrine. I rather think the purpose of the announced executions is to wear down the settlers’ morale which seems to be one of the main goals of this intifada. The settlers will no longer be able to live in peace and comfort but will be reminded that a violent death remains a consequence of living in occupied Palestinian land.
If stealing Palestinian land becomes understood to have potential consequences it will have detrimental effects on settler society. The stream of new settlers wil dry up, the economy of the settlers will suffer and settlers themselves will lose faith in the regime’s ability to keep them safe in spite of their crimes. Settler life is becoming much more stressful and unpleasant for years to come.
I am also not convinced that executing the POWs will help, but that being said i think you’re overestimating the degree to which international opinion has any ability to impact this conflict whatsoever. It has been clear for a while now that neither the occupation regime nor its international allies care to mask their brutality anymore. They are not concerned about what anyone else thinks because they believe no one can do anything to stop them. And frankly i think at this point Palestinians just don’t and can’t afford to care anymore about the optics of their struggle either. It is life and death for them and they have to do whatever it takes to survive.
Agreed. If international opinion mattered enough to accomplish anything, surely it would have done so at some point within the last 75 years of atrocities against Palestine? It’s perfectly understandable to be uncomfortable with the idea of killing prisoners, children, etc, but it’s more important to acknowledge who is responsible for the material conditions that created the current situation.
I think it’s an appropriate human reaction to find people killing people in general to be horrific, but for those of us not actively involved in the anti-colonial struggle, it’s not our place to lecture those who are. If any internet leftists think they know better than groups like the Marxist PFLP who are actively fighting for an end to the apartheid regime, I want to see some airtight materialist reasoning behind it, not nebulous ideas about some hypothetical support based on international vibes.
Which begs the question then of what use is killing the prisoners if it doesn’t stop them and prevents their future use in barter for Palestinians held by Israel.
One could say showing they mean it but the zionist regime already knows they mean it and don’t care. Casualties are a part of settler operations and programs and they know and accept this and such casualties are used to manufacture consent for further brutality against the victims of the settlers and the organizers of this program know and understand this even if their people do not and would actually want to negotiate in order to save the lives of their fellow settlers (and that’s important, if the regime is seen as having settler blood on their hands it causes discontent and anger at it from other settlers who in the western sense do have an expectation their government goes above and beyond to save them and protect them).
I do wonder if the Palestinian cause wouldn’t at this point better be served by backing down on the threats of killing hostages and simply letting Israel kill them in bombings and ground operations. There are enough sympathetic voices in the west that I don’t think they could entirely cover it up as being stuff the Palestinians did and it would further tar the zionist regime in parts of the international community.
Materially speaking, killing the hostages they have might feel good, might even be just, but it won’t advance their cause as much IMO as letting Israel kill them or failing that retaining them alive to barter in future.
One might object that solidarity with the Palestinian people is impotent, that it doesn’t stop the genocide or get them their land back so far. And fair point. But I guess I’m saying I think there is a value to being seen as morally superior. You can’t ever be seen as clean as revolutionaries using violence by the west but you can be seen as understood by many other countries and peoples without much understanding of the situation, it can in the long-run perhaps make it harder for the zionist occupation of Palestine to gain normal relations with Arab countries, can increase pressure and the threat Israel feels of intervention. And making it so that the Israeli hands are bloodied not just with Palestinian blood but with Jewish settler blood as well does give them a certain position diplomatically. It does give certain countries more room to maneuver and say hey there’s some nuance here.
I don’t know though. I really don’t. Obviously if Gaza begins to fall things shift very much back in favor of the stated plan. I just hope against hopes the IDF fails badly. I don’t think they’re going to get any help. The US has sent their military there to assure of that and Syria is in no position to do anything, Iran knows Israel already is itching for an excuse to destroy them and honestly could use nuclear weapons to do so with the excuse their existence was being threatened. I just don’t know that anyone can help the people of Gaza. It feels awful watching this.
Oh and of course solidarity with Palestine! Solidarity with the people of Gaza!
I dont thinking they did actually kill the Prisoners. I haven’t seen anything about it.
If I was Palestinian I wouldn’t count on restraint being able to sway the minds of the baying racists who rules the west to do anything that would make a material difference on the ground in Palestine. And even if sparing the POW’s could actually somehow stop the Zionist regime’s current campaign of indiscriminate terror the question remains what would follow. More of the same slow-moving genocide done with the vocal approval of the so-called civilised west.
I also don’t believe the resistance counted on the POW’s being able to protect Palestinians as human shields. It was worth a try but the settler regime’s low regard for human life, even of it’s own population is well understood and publicly proclaimed in policies like the Hannibal doctrine. I rather think the purpose of the announced executions is to wear down the settlers’ morale which seems to be one of the main goals of this intifada. The settlers will no longer be able to live in peace and comfort but will be reminded that a violent death remains a consequence of living in occupied Palestinian land.
If stealing Palestinian land becomes understood to have potential consequences it will have detrimental effects on settler society. The stream of new settlers wil dry up, the economy of the settlers will suffer and settlers themselves will lose faith in the regime’s ability to keep them safe in spite of their crimes. Settler life is becoming much more stressful and unpleasant for years to come.
I am also not convinced that executing the POWs will help, but that being said i think you’re overestimating the degree to which international opinion has any ability to impact this conflict whatsoever. It has been clear for a while now that neither the occupation regime nor its international allies care to mask their brutality anymore. They are not concerned about what anyone else thinks because they believe no one can do anything to stop them. And frankly i think at this point Palestinians just don’t and can’t afford to care anymore about the optics of their struggle either. It is life and death for them and they have to do whatever it takes to survive.
Agreed. If international opinion mattered enough to accomplish anything, surely it would have done so at some point within the last 75 years of atrocities against Palestine? It’s perfectly understandable to be uncomfortable with the idea of killing prisoners, children, etc, but it’s more important to acknowledge who is responsible for the material conditions that created the current situation.
I think it’s an appropriate human reaction to find people killing people in general to be horrific, but for those of us not actively involved in the anti-colonial struggle, it’s not our place to lecture those who are. If any internet leftists think they know better than groups like the Marxist PFLP who are actively fighting for an end to the apartheid regime, I want to see some airtight materialist reasoning behind it, not nebulous ideas about some hypothetical support based on international vibes.