Hi!
I’m just curious if there are any Europeans here that are pro gun. As a European myself I know it’s super rare and those who are are probably not going to admit it publicly because guns are very, very stigmatized here. The exception might be the Czech Republic since they actually do have concealed carry licenses.
I haven’t always been pro gun, I have just like every other cheep in Europe I thought they were nothing but bad. But after years of watching guntubers and hearing 2a advocates arguments and seeing how the anti-gun crowds arguments are based on complete ignorance (they often can’t even get the basic facts right), I’ve completely changed my mind over the last maybe 5-6 years. The increase of gun violence in Europe and in my own country in particular, like seeing criminals post videos when they fire their fully automatic AKs in the air out the window of a moving car and the rise of gun violence in general. I realized that gun bans don’t work, and the only way to make sure you never get victimized by one of those criminals is to be able to use a gun in self-defense.
I know there are mostly Americans here, and I watch the gun debate over there and how the elite is trying to infringe on your rights. Make sure you fight that every single day. Because us over here have nothing to defend ourselves with if/when something happens. All we can do is hope the offender is not a complete psycho and will not kill us if we just comply.
Any Europeans wanna share their own journey from anti-gun to pro-gun?
Non-European here.
There is an issue of training. It’s expensive to practice shooting, even here in the States, and for many people, even if they can afford the training, they don’t have much oppertunity to do so.
Reguardless of your choice of self defence, if you don’t train with it regularly, it’s a poor self defense.
Heck, even if you are trained, self-defence should still be a last resort.
However, if you are concerned that your home may come under seige, or you have people that are trying to do you or your family harm, then something is better than nothing.
im pro guns though i do not own any
Hi! That’s cool, what made you pro gun?
distrust of the government
also years of redpilling, have not trusted the msm in a very long time, i have also listened to dailywire podcasts and other US political commentators
If pro-gun is defined as gun availibility to everyone, I don’t support it in general. All the unstable people would have gun access and I believe that would lead to more violence, more bad than good. Different countries and even areas have different laws and assumptions on guns. Speaking of my part of the Europe, it’s better to keep guns only for officials, hunters and gun club shooters.
That said your place sounds worrying if there’s gangs with full-auto guns. Luckily for me the local criminals have some illegal guns, but they rarely if ever use them and even then it’s usually in a fight between criminals or people associated with them. Gun related crimes get better investigation and higher punishments, it’s just not worth it for our criminals. Guns are more of a thing for new gangs who try to look cool or intimidating, not individuals. The more stupid, the more likely they are to use a gun.
I would surely be cautious if everyone could get guns cheap and with almost no restrictions, I know too many people I wouldn’t trust with a kitchen knife. They need protection too, but from themselves and other people like them.
I could support unrestricted gun ownership in different situations. Wartime, when there’s martial law or when the officials can’t maintain sufficient order. If someone here gets threatened with a gun they can usually blame themselves for getting into that situation. Except when it’s the new type of gangs who are all about trying to look tough. They are crazy and stupid, but in the most pathetic sense. They should be eradicated in ways that they will not form again.
I’ve been interested in solo hunting which would mean owning at least a rifle or a shotgun. There’s mostly no stigma about guns here unless it’s people who’s only viewpoint about guns is the media, movies, games. Many people have some contact to people who hunt etc. There’s no American style self-defence or my rights ideas here. Guns are just guns, used by the law and military, tool for a hunter, hobby item for people who value guns for their beauty, history and mechanics or who just like to shoot good at track.
I support gun control, but to what degree is that anyone, who actually needs one and is fit (crime history, mental evaluation) under somewhat relaxed rules should be able to own a gun. Solely for self-defence could be allowed, maybe based on profession or other real threats. No guns for people with certain crimes committed, or likely danger of harming themselves or the public.
Absolutely no guns for people who want to look tough with guns. It just breeds wrong mentality and bad image about guns and gun owners.
Gun types matter too, I don’t think any proper guy owner needs full-auto in self-defense situation. It could scare some attackers off, but semi-auto or single shot is well suited when one has to defend themselves. Fully automatic is just more likely to cause secondary unnecessary damage. And threat to outsiders, especially in public shootings.
If pro-gun is defined as gun availibility to everyone, I don’t support it in general. All the unstable people would have gun access and I believe that would lead to more violence, more bad than good.
In the states, when I hear “pro-gun” without any other qualifiers, I usually think of that as meaning someone in favor of protecting citizens’ legal access to guns with little to no gun control.
I do, in principal, agree that letting unstable people have them isn’t desirable. From my perspective, it’s a bit more complicated than that though.
Leaving aside that some otherwise stable people can suddenly go “off the deep end” or theoretically could be coerced into committing crimes they normally would not, the main issue here is that anti-gun folks have taken to trying to misdiagnose some folks as unstable in order to deprive people they dislike from having access to guns. Some states have so-called “red flag” laws (e.g. they define some vague “red flag” trait then have people who are unqualified report people who supposedly have said trait, send them to someone who is supposedly qualified to make that determination but is essentially biased, label them with said “red flag” then use the law to deprive them of rights they would otherwise have, in the US anyway).
If you have a bad opinion of guns, try imaging the same concept but with freedom of speech rather than gun rights and even if you don’t agree with it, you’ll probably at least understand why so many of us get frustrated by it.
I am definitely in favor of convicted criminals not having legal access to guns (but am painfully aware they will probably have illegal access to them anyway) and that is something we restrict here. I think there is some variation by state but everywhere I’ve ever bought a gun from a shop requires passing a criminal background check.
We do have personal sales that don’t get those checks and I know those sales get attacked politically a lot. But most of the people I know who have sold guns in personal sales usually have some method as well cuz we don’t want trouble coming back on us personally or on our right to own guns. For example, I know a lot of guys who will only sell if they either personally know the buyer or the buyer can show a valid gun license (which in turn you can only get after a background check) so it’s still a lot more up-and-up than if someone were to attempt buying on the black market.
Thanks for the insight. Sound like the states have a lot of good going on about guns, except for arguably stupid laws of some supposed red flag. I don’t believe such red flags exist or give enough insight to determine right to gun.
I’ve never seen a gun as a right, because I’ve never been deprived of one. Coming from that viewpoint seeing a right to gun related to right to voice is a bit distant. But I believe I can relate, especially when comparing the demanded restrictions on free speech and why some demand it. Free speech has power of good and evil, some don’t want what they believe to be evil, but it’s just an attempt to control the discussion.
I mostly agree here. I don’t think we should just let everyone and their mother own a gun. I think we can model the whole EU after the Czech Model. Where it does require a license and getting that license requires a clean criminal record and health (including mental) evaluation and also require proper training. At the same time I do support 2a advocates in the US, citizens should never give up their rights to the gov, no matter what. And that’s just a matter of principle for me. But there’s also a downside with it that I do recognize, if i lived over that I would never advocate for gun control.
I think we can trust most of our fellow citizens with guns just like we trust most of them with cars, baseball bats, bow and arrows, swords and knives. Most people are responsible people.
I do not agree that there should have to be an immediate threat towards you or just for certain occupations though, I think every law abiding mentally fit person should be able to carry tools to help them survive if “shit goes down”, because you can never know when that happens. There are multiple examples from just my own country where innocent people end up in the cross fire between gangs too, some have died, some has been wounded, I do not think they can blame themselves.
Gun types matter too, I don’t think any proper guy owner needs full-auto in self-defense situation. It could scare some attackers off, but semi-auto or single shot is well suited when one has to defend themselves.
I never advocated for full-auto either, full auto is pretty useless when you want to hit your shots accurately full auto is meant for suppressive fire in wars, so yeah, semi-auto is enough, single shot is often not enough though, but hey, that would of course be up to the individual what they would think was enough for them.
Thanks for your response btw.
I get the full-auto arguments and why they are not legal in the states today…
That said, I actually think they should be (in the US). Not for home defense against burglars. But as a deterrent for the government. If you read some of the quotes from America’s founding fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, it is strongly implied that they wanted to essentially to have the citizens be a threat to the government in order to prevent tyranny.
Some of the more recent politicians we’ve had I feel like they are getting closer and closer to the kind of tyranny that was feared back then (using power of government and military to take away people’s rights). If that day ever came, being able to fight back against injustice, even in the face of opposition from a modern military, would give corrupt politicians a lot more pause than if they thought they could steamroll everyone into compliance.
No. They’re all pro knife 🤣 lol I’m kidding idk
🤣. I’m probably way too optimistic thinking that people here will start advocating for their right to defend themselves. But I hope to find someone here that thinks the way I do.
I know applications to gun clubs have increased here, mostly due to the aggressions from Russia lately. But maybe also because the increasing gun violence.
I’m sure you will. Honestly I think some are too afraid to speak up. Because of how the other instances moderates. They might think it’s a ‘trick’ just one possibility
You jest but it’s the petty criminals weapon of choice here in the UK. The police recently did a sweep of some woodland just 5 minutes of where I live and found over 20 blades including machetes stashed there.
I’ve always wondered… In the absence of letting citizens carry guns, does the UK at least allow citizens to legally carry knives or even to simply wear protective gear (say Kevlar or chainmail)? Or is that illegal too?
Carrying knives is illegal, I’m not sure about rocking Kevlar though. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was restricted in some way.
Ok thanks
Over here, it’s a mess legal-wise and varies heavily by state and sometimes county and city. I’m not current on a lot of it. Used to be that there were a few places, especially NYC, LA, Chicago where the powers that be heavily frowned on it within city jurisdiction even when it was legal in the state but I think that changed somewhat after a few high profile court cases. I don’t live in those places so might have missed it if they changed. For most other states, you used to be able to get a carry license for firearms, sometimes it would also allow carrying knives or other weapons. But a lot of states have a “constitutional carry” now where you are allowed to even without an explicit permit as long as you not a convicted felon or mental patient etc.
I guess you guys could always carry other stuff that could be used for self defense as long as it was plausible though
E.g. baseball bat and say that you were planning on meeting up with friends for a game. Or a framing hammer bc you were going to stop by a friend’s to help hang a picture? Something that would give a guy with a knife enough pause to maybe leave you alone without you needing to go for a drive with the cops
