I stopped going to a restaurant after the employees said I was a shitty person for not tipping a girl who walked the food to my car $5. It was a $15 order. All she did was walk 50 feet. I get $10 an hour to break my back all day. Fuck you.
She probably got paid like $4 an hour to serve people food.
You’re not wrong for not tipping $5. She wasn’t wrong for wanted/needing/hoping for a 33% tip.
The employer is likely in the wrong for running a restaurant where it’s staff are specifically underpaid to put the burden on their customers to pay them so don’t go broke/stay broke.
So don’t work that job. Shit pay should result in nobody working there.
Oh yeah everyone can just go to the job store and get a new job at-will and there are absolutely no external factors that could impact that. Clearly they work for minimum wage + tips at a thankless job serving people like you out of their passion for the work.
It shouldn’t, no. But there’s a $2.13 an hour minimum wage for tipped employees. Employers have to fill the gap to $7.25 if tips don’t cover it, but the simple matter is the law facilitates the expectation customers pay tips.
Dude don’t be an ass you know what I am saying. 43 states don’t do what you’re talking about. 7 do. That’s not “many” and many of don’t live in those places.
In some states, if reported tips don’t make up the gap between the tipped minimum and regular minimum then the employer is required to cover the difference.
I mean, I don’t. I know people who have had to work terrible jobs serving food because there are work requirements to their medicaid benefits and such.
It’d be great if exploitative jobs were eliminated. But the legal minimum is generally what the market pressures businesses to run with.
Is there some world where the cost of increasing employee pay isn’t also going to “burden” the customer with commensurate higher costs for the service/goods? Getting rid of tipping is a fine idea for many reasons, but not because it’s a cost burden for customers. The customer will partially pay the wages of employees for services they use and goods they consume, either through tipping or increased costs.
The reasons to get rid of tipping is not to save customers money.
The burden I meant wasn’t the money spent itself but the responsibility to cover it directly.
In the context of wages not rising with the costs of living, employers increasingly are passing the responsibility to pay their tipped employees onto consumers, intentionally or not.
If the employer pays their employees a living wage and increases their costs, then they are taking direct responsibility. In that environment you don’t even need to eliminate tipping. Tips would be the bonuses they’re (culturally) intended to be.
So you’re not even actually talking about tipping at all. You’re just saying you want a minimum wage to be a living wage. Unless you’re implying that minimum wages jobs that don’t pay a living wage and that you don’t expect to tip are fine, and I’m confident that’s not what you mean.
A an European, where mandatory tipping is not a thing, I find this practice of outsourcing the payment of restaurant employee’s salaries to customers absolutely stupid.
I really can’t understand how either customers or employees are letting this go on.
If one isn’t able to pay their employees a living wage they should just pick another fucking thing to do tbh.
At the very least this needs to be spoken out loud and understood by everyone.
The customer is forced to subsidize the employer and those that suffer from this, the employee, typically blame the customer. The employer is the problem here, not the customer.
The employer is the problem here, not the customer.
That’s the first place I would apply the blame to, but, also a little bit on the employee, for either not being able to negotiate their salary better, or for not being part of a union that can do the negotiation for them.
The employer should share the wealth better though, that’s for sure.
Employees actually fight to defend their tips, as they mean a much better income than the wage they could negotiate, even with unions. Customers are the most impacted here, and can’t do much to change anything, except either stop using the service altogether, or stop tipping.
Mandatory tipping isn’t a thing anywhere at all. And if it were, it wouldn’t be tipping at all…it would just be a component of the price. It’s socially expected, but not mandatory.
I also don’t know how people let this go on though. The craziest part is tippers think they have the moral high ground over a person who doesn’t tip, when in fact it’s the opposite. Tipping is fundamentally unethical.
Not true, I’ve been to several restaurants that have small print on their menu along the lines of “a gratuity of X% will be automatically added to your bill”, sometimes for parties over Y, sometimes after Z o’clock, sometimes just in general
Gratuity is a fancy word for tip. It’s a separate line item, no different than if you’d written it yourself when paying by card, except it’s not voluntary.
My point is the actual definition of both gratuity and tip requires they be optional. Those businesses are using the word incorrectly, but that doesn’t change the definition.
Just consider that a “hidden fee”. You’re probably already paying hidden fees on your cellphone bill, ISP bill, flights, hotels and Airbnb’s. Shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to get over it.
As an European, I have made the mistake of leaving a tip… and I have been given a tip… and have talked to others who got tipped… and our consensus is that it’s an offensive way of attempted slavery.
If I do a job, I’m doing my job as specified, for the agreed upon price, take it or leave it. I’m not lowering the price to lure a customer, expecting they’ll suddenly appreciate my work so much that maybe they’ll decide to pay me more. If they don’t think I’ll do a good job from the beginning, they can go elsewhere. If for some reason I don’t do a good job, they can have their money back, that’s on me to make sure it doesn’t happen. If I did a good job, and they don’t think so, we can meet in court.
That anger would be better directed at the corporations who have used propaganda to get people to subsidize the wages of their employees further and further.
The person you’re shitty with is just trying to get by, same as you.
Then why would they direct their anger towards him for not tipping? It’s not his fault. It’s not like they’re forming a union and demanding appropriate wage. At this point, steadily increasing tips are just shifting more corporate responsibility onto consumers.
See, even this argument, while it makes sense in that I should utilize my money to further businesses I have moral agreement with, is another way to put the onus of paying a living wage to employees back onto me.
I sympathize with everyone pulling down a working wage, but… When I need vacation time or cost of living increases or healthcare, or whatever… Are food service personnel expected to drop what they’re doing and join me on the picket line?
The only solutions I can think of would be far more universal than me not visiting a certain taco bell or tipping 40 percent. There are billions of us. Maybe it’s time for a universal union or boycott brigade or something? Change needs to happen on a grand scale, not be argued about on Lemmy. But, we all have shit to do and it’s almost the weekend.
If there is a massive mobilization effort for enough people to stop tipping collectively I’d be on board but that doesn’t exist. So the people refusing to tip yet continuing to frequent these establishments while claiming moral highground are just hurting hard working people. I hate tip culture too but to not participate on an individual basis is inherently selfish once you understand how the system works.
Comb this thread. Find one acceptable comment explaining why they refuse to tip and how their actions help in the slightest. I agree the burden shouldn’t be on us but the solution isn’t to turn it around on other victims of this system.
Isn’t it though? If the only thing keeping that whole system running is my subsidy, which, to remind you, is intended to be a gratuity based on how I felt about the services (which people seem to forget is what the definition of a tip was supposed to be based on rules we agreed on as a society), then why not remove it and let the system topple?
For what it’s worth, I worked deliveries for quite some time, and dealt with douchebag customers and muggings, etc. I never tip under 20 percent unless you do something to thoroughly piss me off. But posts like this are ridiculously entitled to money that I frankly don’t owe anyone based on social contract.
I like how you talk, and carry yourself through this type of conversation. You word things in a way I could never come up with. If there was a way to subscribe to users’ comments, I would yours.
I think you’re missing my point, but in your defense, a lot of people are. My saying that stiffing people their tips is wrong does not mean I support the system of tipping. I would be very happy to remove it. But as it stands, it’s still the law of the land. It’s literally baked into US tax law. To not participate does not tear it down, it just punishes people who depend on it. So I don’t accept “I want to end tipping. Therefore, I don’t tip“ as a reasonable stance.
People are conflating my stance of “don’t stiff people on their tips“ with “I support tipping culture.“ That is not the case. Businesses should pay a living wage. This $2.13 nonsense is absurd.
I think it would be uncharitable to describe the crux of your argument as pro-tip given what you’ve said so far. Honestly, I’m in the same boat as you, since I still tip in spite of my own feelings about how it’s affecting us because I’m powerless to change current doctrine.
However, I would like to point out that your argument does come off as an appeal to Nirvana in my mind as it is essentially advocating we do nothing but maintain status quo because there’s no current perfect solution. I think we can both agree that if we all decided to cease tipping, this would not be an issue within a year (granted it would take untold amounts of human suffering in that short time). Of course, it also would work if we simply boycotted every establishment dependent on tips.
But, again, both of these solutions are completely dependent on us stepping in to change conditions for restaurant employees on their behalf.
To be fair, I’m somewhat in the weeds here. My primary opinion is that no one is entitled to a fanciful tip, and I’m not really here to destroy tipping culture. I’m just getting fatigued by ever increasing expectations.
I mean, two way street wouldn’t you say? Even with that perspective I wouldn’t go back to a place that shames you for tips. I’ve never in my life heard of giving a tip for curbside pickup, every major restaurant chain is doing it free these days. By all means I’ll tip a driven delivery or waited table, but curbside pickup?
This whole thread is people railing against a strawman/implying they’re somehow sticking it to businesses to justify their not wanting to tip. It’s pathetic.
I stopped going to a restaurant after the employees said I was a shitty person for not tipping a girl who walked the food to my car $5. It was a $15 order. All she did was walk 50 feet. I get $10 an hour to break my back all day. Fuck you.
She probably got paid like $4 an hour to serve people food.
You’re not wrong for not tipping $5. She wasn’t wrong for wanted/needing/hoping for a 33% tip.
The employer is likely in the wrong for running a restaurant where it’s staff are specifically underpaid to put the burden on their customers to pay them so don’t go broke/stay broke.
So don’t work that job. Shit pay should result in nobody working there.
It shouldn’t result in an expectation of the customers to pay your wage in an unspoken random amount on top of their bill
Unionizing across the industry and striking would go a longer way towards that goal.
And it shouldn’t result in workers being paid an unlivable wage but here we are…
Oh yeah everyone can just go to the job store and get a new job at-will and there are absolutely no external factors that could impact that. Clearly they work for minimum wage + tips at a thankless job serving people like you out of their passion for the work.
Yes, jobs are extremely easy to come by everywhere and everyone gets to do their ideal work, anytime they want.
Strap on your job helmet!
If you didn’t get tips would you work for a restaurant for an abysmal wage? Or look elsewhere
It shouldn’t, no. But there’s a $2.13 an hour minimum wage for tipped employees. Employers have to fill the gap to $7.25 if tips don’t cover it, but the simple matter is the law facilitates the expectation customers pay tips.
7 States and DC don’t have a tipped minimum wage.
In CA it’s $15.50 currently with our without tips.
43 states do.
And don’t forget the colonies of puerto Rico and Guam
TIL!
It’s almost like there are 50 states or something…
Dude don’t be an ass you know what I am saying. 43 states don’t do what you’re talking about. 7 do. That’s not “many” and many of don’t live in those places.
In some states, if reported tips don’t make up the gap between the tipped minimum and regular minimum then the employer is required to cover the difference.
Uh huh.
So stop working those jobs.
You’re literally agreeing to work for $2.13 an hour. Would you do that at any other job? Fuck no!
Anything else you get is just kindness.
I mean, I don’t. I know people who have had to work terrible jobs serving food because there are work requirements to their medicaid benefits and such.
It’d be great if exploitative jobs were eliminated. But the legal minimum is generally what the market pressures businesses to run with.
It’s not always a choice
There’s always a choice. Nobody HAS to work in a restaurant for tips
This is profoundly ignorant. Sorry, it just is. You need to read up on this stuff man.
you got a source for that statement?
Ah of course, I forgot the people FORCED to work in restaurants
33% tip is absolutely ridiculous
Is there some world where the cost of increasing employee pay isn’t also going to “burden” the customer with commensurate higher costs for the service/goods? Getting rid of tipping is a fine idea for many reasons, but not because it’s a cost burden for customers. The customer will partially pay the wages of employees for services they use and goods they consume, either through tipping or increased costs.
The reasons to get rid of tipping is not to save customers money.
The burden I meant wasn’t the money spent itself but the responsibility to cover it directly.
In the context of wages not rising with the costs of living, employers increasingly are passing the responsibility to pay their tipped employees onto consumers, intentionally or not.
If the employer pays their employees a living wage and increases their costs, then they are taking direct responsibility. In that environment you don’t even need to eliminate tipping. Tips would be the bonuses they’re (culturally) intended to be.
So you’re not even actually talking about tipping at all. You’re just saying you want a minimum wage to be a living wage. Unless you’re implying that minimum wages jobs that don’t pay a living wage and that you don’t expect to tip are fine, and I’m confident that’s not what you mean.
A an European, where mandatory tipping is not a thing, I find this practice of outsourcing the payment of restaurant employee’s salaries to customers absolutely stupid.
I really can’t understand how either customers or employees are letting this go on.
If one isn’t able to pay their employees a living wage they should just pick another fucking thing to do tbh.
At the very least this needs to be spoken out loud and understood by everyone.
The customer is forced to subsidize the employer and those that suffer from this, the employee, typically blame the customer. The employer is the problem here, not the customer.
That’s the first place I would apply the blame to, but, also a little bit on the employee, for either not being able to negotiate their salary better, or for not being part of a union that can do the negotiation for them.
The employer should share the wealth better though, that’s for sure.
Employees actually fight to defend their tips, as they mean a much better income than the wage they could negotiate, even with unions. Customers are the most impacted here, and can’t do much to change anything, except either stop using the service altogether, or stop tipping.
Citation required.
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Mandatory tipping isn’t a thing anywhere at all. And if it were, it wouldn’t be tipping at all…it would just be a component of the price. It’s socially expected, but not mandatory.
I also don’t know how people let this go on though. The craziest part is tippers think they have the moral high ground over a person who doesn’t tip, when in fact it’s the opposite. Tipping is fundamentally unethical.
Not true, I’ve been to several restaurants that have small print on their menu along the lines of “a gratuity of X% will be automatically added to your bill”, sometimes for parties over Y, sometimes after Z o’clock, sometimes just in general
That’s just part of the price at that point. Sneaky for sure, and I wouldn’t want to eat there… but it isn’t a tip by definition.
Gratuity is a fancy word for tip. It’s a separate line item, no different than if you’d written it yourself when paying by card, except it’s not voluntary.
My point is the actual definition of both gratuity and tip requires they be optional. Those businesses are using the word incorrectly, but that doesn’t change the definition.
Just consider that a “hidden fee”. You’re probably already paying hidden fees on your cellphone bill, ISP bill, flights, hotels and Airbnb’s. Shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to get over it.
As an European, I have made the mistake of leaving a tip… and I have been given a tip… and have talked to others who got tipped… and our consensus is that it’s an offensive way of attempted slavery.
If I do a job, I’m doing my job as specified, for the agreed upon price, take it or leave it. I’m not lowering the price to lure a customer, expecting they’ll suddenly appreciate my work so much that maybe they’ll decide to pay me more. If they don’t think I’ll do a good job from the beginning, they can go elsewhere. If for some reason I don’t do a good job, they can have their money back, that’s on me to make sure it doesn’t happen. If I did a good job, and they don’t think so, we can meet in court.
That anger would be better directed at the corporations who have used propaganda to get people to subsidize the wages of their employees further and further.
The person you’re shitty with is just trying to get by, same as you.
Then why would they direct their anger towards him for not tipping? It’s not his fault. It’s not like they’re forming a union and demanding appropriate wage. At this point, steadily increasing tips are just shifting more corporate responsibility onto consumers.
I agree, both of them should be directing their frustration on the corporations that have forced them to subsidize wages.
No you don’t, stop lying
So the solution is for you to stop tipping people yet still continue giving your money to the business that expects tipping?
See, even this argument, while it makes sense in that I should utilize my money to further businesses I have moral agreement with, is another way to put the onus of paying a living wage to employees back onto me.
I sympathize with everyone pulling down a working wage, but… When I need vacation time or cost of living increases or healthcare, or whatever… Are food service personnel expected to drop what they’re doing and join me on the picket line?
The only solutions I can think of would be far more universal than me not visiting a certain taco bell or tipping 40 percent. There are billions of us. Maybe it’s time for a universal union or boycott brigade or something? Change needs to happen on a grand scale, not be argued about on Lemmy. But, we all have shit to do and it’s almost the weekend.
If there is a massive mobilization effort for enough people to stop tipping collectively I’d be on board but that doesn’t exist. So the people refusing to tip yet continuing to frequent these establishments while claiming moral highground are just hurting hard working people. I hate tip culture too but to not participate on an individual basis is inherently selfish once you understand how the system works.
Comb this thread. Find one acceptable comment explaining why they refuse to tip and how their actions help in the slightest. I agree the burden shouldn’t be on us but the solution isn’t to turn it around on other victims of this system.
Isn’t it though? If the only thing keeping that whole system running is my subsidy, which, to remind you, is intended to be a gratuity based on how I felt about the services (which people seem to forget is what the definition of a tip was supposed to be based on rules we agreed on as a society), then why not remove it and let the system topple?
For what it’s worth, I worked deliveries for quite some time, and dealt with douchebag customers and muggings, etc. I never tip under 20 percent unless you do something to thoroughly piss me off. But posts like this are ridiculously entitled to money that I frankly don’t owe anyone based on social contract.
I like how you talk, and carry yourself through this type of conversation. You word things in a way I could never come up with. If there was a way to subscribe to users’ comments, I would yours.
You are too kind, and your words are definitely appreciated! I hope you have an awesome weekend.
I think you’re missing my point, but in your defense, a lot of people are. My saying that stiffing people their tips is wrong does not mean I support the system of tipping. I would be very happy to remove it. But as it stands, it’s still the law of the land. It’s literally baked into US tax law. To not participate does not tear it down, it just punishes people who depend on it. So I don’t accept “I want to end tipping. Therefore, I don’t tip“ as a reasonable stance.
People are conflating my stance of “don’t stiff people on their tips“ with “I support tipping culture.“ That is not the case. Businesses should pay a living wage. This $2.13 nonsense is absurd.
I think it would be uncharitable to describe the crux of your argument as pro-tip given what you’ve said so far. Honestly, I’m in the same boat as you, since I still tip in spite of my own feelings about how it’s affecting us because I’m powerless to change current doctrine.
However, I would like to point out that your argument does come off as an appeal to Nirvana in my mind as it is essentially advocating we do nothing but maintain status quo because there’s no current perfect solution. I think we can both agree that if we all decided to cease tipping, this would not be an issue within a year (granted it would take untold amounts of human suffering in that short time). Of course, it also would work if we simply boycotted every establishment dependent on tips.
But, again, both of these solutions are completely dependent on us stepping in to change conditions for restaurant employees on their behalf.
To be fair, I’m somewhat in the weeds here. My primary opinion is that no one is entitled to a fanciful tip, and I’m not really here to destroy tipping culture. I’m just getting fatigued by ever increasing expectations.
I mean, two way street wouldn’t you say? Even with that perspective I wouldn’t go back to a place that shames you for tips. I’ve never in my life heard of giving a tip for curbside pickup, every major restaurant chain is doing it free these days. By all means I’ll tip a driven delivery or waited table, but curbside pickup?
Call it whatever you want, it’s what corporations have done in the U.S.
I’m just saying, have a little compassion for people who are very likely in the same boat you find yourself in.
Whatever compassion is there is gonna be gone when they act like what commenter above described.
That’s a you problem. Walmart starts at more than that.
They should just go get a better job. Apparently that’s a reasonable solution.
that happened
Nothing ever happens!
This whole thread is people railing against a strawman/implying they’re somehow sticking it to businesses to justify their not wanting to tip. It’s pathetic.
You should learn how to read a room.
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Appreciate the input