Idk, maybe sole proprietor works. Keep the communities relatively, everyone picks up an array of skills, you don’t need marketing to know jimbob and Lisa are the only people skilled w plumbing stuff in the community. And I think it’s pretty common for soleprop to do their own bookkeeping, if it’s really done at all.
How does society build spacecraft, or do high energy physics research in this scenario? Sounds like paradise if you’re willing to stay in an agrarian society, but you have to be comfortable with life expectancy dropping like a rock from its current levels, because there would be no MRI machines, or gene therapy. These things are not the work of individuals, or even small groups working on handshake agreements. Contrary to how it might sound, I’m really not attacking the premise, I just want to make sure everyone understands what their advocating when they imply that this is how society should be.
Yeah, it was really feeling like you were just being contrarian. Which led me to not really try at all to engage with you further. But since it now seems you’re coming at this in good faith….
I’m 100% on the same page with you about advanced technologies and science, though I do wonder if our individual happiness wouldn’t be greater with a bit less technology. The harnessing of tech/science to extract value out of people at the expense of mental health (corporate social media for example) is a cost that is hard to weigh against the advantages of modern health sciences.
It’d be nice if we could find a way to achieve those things without the need for obscene concentration of wealth and this global tragedy of the commons perpetuated by companies and individuals that are so far removed from the impacts of their actions.
There must be a letter way, and I have no clue how to figure it out or how we’d implement it… but the way things are now just… doesn’t feel good.
Why do people want to become doctors, astronauts, invent medical devices, invent new technology, etc
When you give people the choice to actually contribute to society with the things they enjoy doing then they will
And menial tasks such as emptying a septic tank can be automated
Right now the only way people can contribute to society in a way they enjoy is if they have enough money to do so, if not they are forced into doing jobs that they don’t enjoy and drain them
When you give people the chance to contribute to society with the things they enjoy millions of talentless people are going to become video game streamers or rock stars.
There are always some that will “do nothing” if given the freedom to live as they want. Most won’t. What exactly will take the place of a 9 to 5 in a post Capitalist world? No idea. I’m not that smart. Humans do need more than simple pixie dust and altruistic motivations to do more than the most bare bones of things. That said, whatever the next system may be, it need not threaten peoples security (housing, food, and medical care) to be functional.
I would argue those very real threats motivate people into action to an extent. Yes, we definitely eed to care more for the people that fall through the cracks, especially those who re vulnerable to begin with, but inventing a system where the average person has no reason to fear for anything seems to be Sixth Form fairy politics to me.
Assuming people will just organise themselves into a functional but equitable and fair society is asking for too much from human beings. We are neither purely individualistic or collectivist by nature. We need a system that accounts for all human flaws rather than one that assumes we will all behave as the best versions of ourselves with no incentives.
I can think of a worse future than one where our rapid advances in technology and productivity afford us the ability to create more art and beauty without fear of destitution.
That’s nice and all, but politics need to take into account the material conditions in which we find ourselves in the present day rather than assuming it’s possible to jump to idealistic Star Trek post scarcity.
Right now you can contribute to society by doing work that matters which does not always require individual expenses.
For example bar none the single most important job in any developed society is water purification. Working at the water utility is something you can do that benefits everyone and has no cost to yourself.
The second most critical task is waste management which requires no money from the worker either.
Im not being pedantic here. The claim you have to be wealthy to contribute is false
Some people may enjoy waste management or water purification but not all people do
People also have to lay for the cost of transport, bills, taxes, food, shelter, etc
People want to contribute to society in ways which they enjoy and tasks like water purification and waste management can be largely automated with notifications sent out to people overseeing the automation if there’s an issue
Lol, you think we can completely automate water systems and trash collection? What planet do you live on because those have NEVER been automated anywhere.
I think you live in a dreamworld where people can just do whatever task fulfills them and all the unpleasant jobs are magically taken care of.
Do you think waste management is only the garbage people who come to collect your bin rubbish every week
I think those garbage people need to come see you more often because it’s clear you’re making trash here in the comment section by arguing I’m bad faith
No I don’t think waste management is just picking up trash. Nothing in my comment suggests that I think that way.
I did not say you made abad faith argument as I suspect you do believe these things can be automated. What I DID say was that your vision of how societies could function is unrealistic and ignorant of how things actually work. That is different than bad faith.
Idk, maybe sole proprietor works. Keep the communities relatively, everyone picks up an array of skills, you don’t need marketing to know jimbob and Lisa are the only people skilled w plumbing stuff in the community. And I think it’s pretty common for soleprop to do their own bookkeeping, if it’s really done at all.
How does society build spacecraft, or do high energy physics research in this scenario? Sounds like paradise if you’re willing to stay in an agrarian society, but you have to be comfortable with life expectancy dropping like a rock from its current levels, because there would be no MRI machines, or gene therapy. These things are not the work of individuals, or even small groups working on handshake agreements. Contrary to how it might sound, I’m really not attacking the premise, I just want to make sure everyone understands what their advocating when they imply that this is how society should be.
Yeah, it was really feeling like you were just being contrarian. Which led me to not really try at all to engage with you further. But since it now seems you’re coming at this in good faith….
I’m 100% on the same page with you about advanced technologies and science, though I do wonder if our individual happiness wouldn’t be greater with a bit less technology. The harnessing of tech/science to extract value out of people at the expense of mental health (corporate social media for example) is a cost that is hard to weigh against the advantages of modern health sciences.
It’d be nice if we could find a way to achieve those things without the need for obscene concentration of wealth and this global tragedy of the commons perpetuated by companies and individuals that are so far removed from the impacts of their actions.
There must be a letter way, and I have no clue how to figure it out or how we’d implement it… but the way things are now just… doesn’t feel good.
Why do people want to become doctors, astronauts, invent medical devices, invent new technology, etc
When you give people the choice to actually contribute to society with the things they enjoy doing then they will
And menial tasks such as emptying a septic tank can be automated
Right now the only way people can contribute to society in a way they enjoy is if they have enough money to do so, if not they are forced into doing jobs that they don’t enjoy and drain them
When you give people the chance to contribute to society with the things they enjoy millions of talentless people are going to become video game streamers or rock stars.
There are always some that will “do nothing” if given the freedom to live as they want. Most won’t. What exactly will take the place of a 9 to 5 in a post Capitalist world? No idea. I’m not that smart. Humans do need more than simple pixie dust and altruistic motivations to do more than the most bare bones of things. That said, whatever the next system may be, it need not threaten peoples security (housing, food, and medical care) to be functional.
I would argue those very real threats motivate people into action to an extent. Yes, we definitely eed to care more for the people that fall through the cracks, especially those who re vulnerable to begin with, but inventing a system where the average person has no reason to fear for anything seems to be Sixth Form fairy politics to me.
Assuming people will just organise themselves into a functional but equitable and fair society is asking for too much from human beings. We are neither purely individualistic or collectivist by nature. We need a system that accounts for all human flaws rather than one that assumes we will all behave as the best versions of ourselves with no incentives.
I can think of a worse future than one where our rapid advances in technology and productivity afford us the ability to create more art and beauty without fear of destitution.
That’s nice and all, but politics need to take into account the material conditions in which we find ourselves in the present day rather than assuming it’s possible to jump to idealistic Star Trek post scarcity.
Right now you can contribute to society by doing work that matters which does not always require individual expenses.
For example bar none the single most important job in any developed society is water purification. Working at the water utility is something you can do that benefits everyone and has no cost to yourself.
The second most critical task is waste management which requires no money from the worker either.
Im not being pedantic here. The claim you have to be wealthy to contribute is false
Did you read my comment properly
Some people may enjoy waste management or water purification but not all people do
People also have to lay for the cost of transport, bills, taxes, food, shelter, etc
People want to contribute to society in ways which they enjoy and tasks like water purification and waste management can be largely automated with notifications sent out to people overseeing the automation if there’s an issue
Lol, you think we can completely automate water systems and trash collection? What planet do you live on because those have NEVER been automated anywhere.
I think you live in a dreamworld where people can just do whatever task fulfills them and all the unpleasant jobs are magically taken care of.
Do you think waste management is only the garbage people who come to collect your bin rubbish every week
I think those garbage people need to come see you more often because it’s clear you’re making trash here in the comment section by arguing I’m bad faith
No I don’t think waste management is just picking up trash. Nothing in my comment suggests that I think that way.
I did not say you made abad faith argument as I suspect you do believe these things can be automated. What I DID say was that your vision of how societies could function is unrealistic and ignorant of how things actually work. That is different than bad faith.