Anecdotal evidence is not stronger than actual data. Your father became reliant on the state because the state paid a living wage and other jobs didn’t.
You don’t know my dad so kindly keep your opinions to yourself about why he is in the situation he is.
I agree about anecdotes vs data, but in the absence of hard reliable data on this issue then that’s all we have to go on. Unless you fancy inventing a mind reading device we are never going to know if the money is going to where it is needed.
Social programs are needed, not throwing cash at addicts and the work shy and hoping they turn their lives round one day.
Social programs don’t go far enough. You can’t lift yourself out of poverty when you’re paid before the poverty line. People who need these resources can’t afford to lift themselves out of poverty.
All I’m saying is that some of the welfare money that is currently being used to buy heroin or alcohol would be better off invested in mental health or back to work programs. I think when you criticise the methods of dishing out welfare, for some reason people think you want to kick people out on the streets and make them starve which is utter horse shit.
I’ve never denied that millions legitimately need the money and won’t spend it on coke and H. But throwing money at incredibly mentally ill people can result in a negative feedback loop whereby people become reliant on it and never work to improve their station.
The thing that may on the left won’t care to admit is that some people on the bottom rung of society don’t want to change. Whatever the reason for that may be, it’s a pervasive truth. They are comfortable in being uncomfortable. There are also those who have children for the extra benefits too and thus the cycle of poor education and poverty continues into the next generation.
Again when I say things like the above, I am not implying this is even the majority of people who claim benefits. But there is this glamorisation of the extreme poor in the left that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when you interact with a lot of these people. You have to put some effort in to escape poverty, some just want everything handed to them on a plate.
You are protecting a lot of stereotypes into a very diverse set of people. You can’t police the few that would spend their money on heroine without punishing those who need food for themselves and their children. Stop blaming the poor for all of societies problems and start looking at the rich to pay their debt to society.
There is no effort you can put into getting out of poverty because the system is designed to keep you impoverished.
Of course you can police different people in different ways it just requires an actual plan. The one size fits all approach to benefits is ridiculous.
Of course people can put effort into bettering themselves and escaping poverty, we don’t live in a third world country, we have social mobility in Britain.
I’ve never mentioned the rich, but it’s laughable that you assume that I think they are blameless in all this. That’s what happens when you see the world in black and white, good versus bad. There are problems in all rungs of society. Poor people can be shitty too.
Not without creating a complex and expensive system that is unnecessarily penalizing.
You’re right, you didn’t mention the rich and that’s the problem. Your focus has been on the wrong group this entire time. Quit obsessing over the people with the least power to affect any change in they’re lives and start focusing on the group that never faces scrutiny but is most deserving of it.
I didn’t mention the rich because it’s off topic when talking about benefit claimants. You just assumed my entire preferred policy platform based on my views on a singular issue.
The system should take into account the individual absolutely and should be tied into social care. If it’s complicated so be it, because it’s a massive societal problem.
It’s off topic only because you want it to be. Just give the poor some money and mind your business. Stop supporting a fucking police state that had its nose up everyone’s ass and has arbitrary and penalizing standards that people have to meet.
It’s is a massive societal problem with a simple solution: mind your fucking business. Studies gave shown that giving the poor money leads to substantially better outcomes than creating a massive bureaucracy. The latter is also more expensive and wasteful of taxpayer dollars.
Meanwhile the rich want to pay poverty wages and dodge taxes.
Anecdotal evidence is not stronger than actual data. Your father became reliant on the state because the state paid a living wage and other jobs didn’t.
You don’t know my dad so kindly keep your opinions to yourself about why he is in the situation he is.
I agree about anecdotes vs data, but in the absence of hard reliable data on this issue then that’s all we have to go on. Unless you fancy inventing a mind reading device we are never going to know if the money is going to where it is needed.
Social programs are needed, not throwing cash at addicts and the work shy and hoping they turn their lives round one day.
Social programs don’t go far enough. You can’t lift yourself out of poverty when you’re paid before the poverty line. People who need these resources can’t afford to lift themselves out of poverty.
All I’m saying is that some of the welfare money that is currently being used to buy heroin or alcohol would be better off invested in mental health or back to work programs. I think when you criticise the methods of dishing out welfare, for some reason people think you want to kick people out on the streets and make them starve which is utter horse shit.
I’ve never denied that millions legitimately need the money and won’t spend it on coke and H. But throwing money at incredibly mentally ill people can result in a negative feedback loop whereby people become reliant on it and never work to improve their station.
The thing that may on the left won’t care to admit is that some people on the bottom rung of society don’t want to change. Whatever the reason for that may be, it’s a pervasive truth. They are comfortable in being uncomfortable. There are also those who have children for the extra benefits too and thus the cycle of poor education and poverty continues into the next generation.
Again when I say things like the above, I am not implying this is even the majority of people who claim benefits. But there is this glamorisation of the extreme poor in the left that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny when you interact with a lot of these people. You have to put some effort in to escape poverty, some just want everything handed to them on a plate.
You are protecting a lot of stereotypes into a very diverse set of people. You can’t police the few that would spend their money on heroine without punishing those who need food for themselves and their children. Stop blaming the poor for all of societies problems and start looking at the rich to pay their debt to society.
There is no effort you can put into getting out of poverty because the system is designed to keep you impoverished.
deleted by creator
Of course you can police different people in different ways it just requires an actual plan. The one size fits all approach to benefits is ridiculous.
Of course people can put effort into bettering themselves and escaping poverty, we don’t live in a third world country, we have social mobility in Britain.
I’ve never mentioned the rich, but it’s laughable that you assume that I think they are blameless in all this. That’s what happens when you see the world in black and white, good versus bad. There are problems in all rungs of society. Poor people can be shitty too.
Not without creating a complex and expensive system that is unnecessarily penalizing.
You’re right, you didn’t mention the rich and that’s the problem. Your focus has been on the wrong group this entire time. Quit obsessing over the people with the least power to affect any change in they’re lives and start focusing on the group that never faces scrutiny but is most deserving of it.
I didn’t mention the rich because it’s off topic when talking about benefit claimants. You just assumed my entire preferred policy platform based on my views on a singular issue.
The system should take into account the individual absolutely and should be tied into social care. If it’s complicated so be it, because it’s a massive societal problem.
It’s off topic only because you want it to be. Just give the poor some money and mind your business. Stop supporting a fucking police state that had its nose up everyone’s ass and has arbitrary and penalizing standards that people have to meet.
It’s is a massive societal problem with a simple solution: mind your fucking business. Studies gave shown that giving the poor money leads to substantially better outcomes than creating a massive bureaucracy. The latter is also more expensive and wasteful of taxpayer dollars.
Meanwhile the rich want to pay poverty wages and dodge taxes.