I can’t believe this is the one thing this congress has actually managed to do. We just want healthcare
I want both.
Healthcare!?! Who needs healthcare when Congress is giving us our god given freedom of domestic surveillance capitalism, which is the freedomist freedom that ever freedomed, you filthy communist!
So anyway, I started violating civil liberties… PEW PEW
You’ll take your overpriced medicine from your out of network pharmacy and you’ll like it. At the fake markup price. And good luck getting that ultrasound, they’re going to code the billing wrong so instead of it being $40 it’s $1000. That’s freedom talking.
And good luck getting that ultrasound, they’re going to code the billing wrong so instead of it being $40 it’s $1000.
🎶 Ain’t that America! Home of the free baby! 🎶
Bald eagle screeches
I wonder how many of these lawmakers will be invested in the company that swoops in and saves the American public?
For real. You know Pelosi is already investing.
If she’s investing at the same time you’re getting the information, she missed the best time to buy. She might have hedged her bets and bought early
Fun fact: Congresspeople can legally inside trade, but the rest of us cannot.
Politicians should be banned from stock market. Total conflict of interest.
Eight Democrat Senators agree with you, and cosponsored a bill in September that died at introduction.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/2773/all-actions-without-amendments
That’s not true. It’s still illegal even though they get away with it. You’re thinking of
briberylobbying.According to the STOCK Act of 2012, they could be brought up on charges for a trade performed after gaining knowledge of a pending change in legislation that would affect the value of a stock, prior to the legislation being publicly enacted. The SEC just hasn’t charged them.
What they do is not legal, they just live above the law.
Just to clarify. Insider trading is illegal but it is not illegal for politicians in Congress to use the information they obtain from their jobs (such as through classified meetings) to engage in stock market trades.
It’s not a failure of the law. It’s a failure of the SEC for not enforcing it.
MYTH: Members of Congress are exempt from insider trading laws.
FACT: Both a Congressional Research Service Report and House Administration Committee memo indicates that Members of Congress are subject to the same insider trading rules as the general public.
That’s simply not true. They have no exemption to insider trading laws. It simply comes down to trade timing.
The way the law is written, they could be brought up on charges for a trade performed after gaining knowledge of a pending change in legislation that would affect the value of a stock prior to the legislation being publicly enacted. The SEC just hasn’t charged them.
What they do is not legal, they just live above the law.
If everyone doing it gets away with it, then is it actually illegal?
Yes. It is. They just need to be arrested and prosecuted. I agree that it should be taken more seriously, considering that it’s against the law.
No one has ever been prosecuted in the decade and change that it has been illegal, despite frequent violations.
Martha. Stewart.
Fun fact: Everyone with hundreds of millions+ in holdings either trades with insider information or pays others to do it, because our metrics and enforcement for insider trading are a gallows joke.
For sure they’re already in way before general public
Pathetic watching ancient, feeble rich people about to return to the dust from whence they came still frantically positioning to boost their ego scores.
It’s if they believe their preferred invisible sky mommy/daddy will accept a bribe of earthly currency.
I would rather chill in my basement.
Don’t worry everyone, it’s just pelosi’s 3rd cousin doing the investing so that makes everything totally cool and totally legal.
Mnuchin (fmr Trump Treasury Sec) is already setting up a group to try and buy it apparently.
The company behind tik tok said they will not sell they America is only 20% of their global market. They have refused to give their source code.
So guess app just won’t work in US. Dumb ass lawmakers only people this hurt are the US citizens that are using it to make money.
I’d counter that basing your livelihood on an app that harvests your and your viewers data for an adversarial government known to use this kind of data in psyops isn’t a sound business idea.
In fact, I’d say this bill actually protects American users who have been using the app.
If TikTok can’t prove that they use our data responsibly, and refuse to do so to the point of just leaving the market, we are all better off. Another company will fill that void and content creators have endless options to move to.
I don’t think “but people need to make money while our data is harvested and provided to a government that uses it against us” is a great argument.
It’s never been to protect the public. If that were the case, the law wouldn’t apply to just TikTok and foreign companies. They would’ve passed something to protect us from our own domestic data brokers too, but they didn’t.
It’s almost like an action can protect people and enrich elites at the same time. Explain how the American public isn’t better of keeping their personal data away from the CCP. Interested to see how you think this doesn’t protect the public at all from an adversarial foreign government.
When you could just generalize the law to include protecting us from our own oligarchs and they did not, it clearly shows who they work for.
We could also feed the poor, house the homeless, heal the sick etc. we could ask why any law regarding healthcare, housing, nutrition doesn’t fix the issue, but that’s a whole other can of worms.
The FTC is putting in work this administration, and are poised to bring back Net Neutrality (obligatory Fuck Ajit Pai). This is a huge step towards protecting all Americans, so I think you’re confusing this issue (adversarial governments harvesting our data) with the larger issue of domestic policy (which will be much harder to tackle).
Let’s open the can of worms. Right here right now.
If the goal of a law is to keep people safe should we pass laws that do that or pass laws that don’t? Answer the question.
If goal is X should we try to get X or try to get Y?
Really really simple and you should manage it. Come on brought-to-you-buy-Meta, simple question I am sure you can answer it.
It’s almost like we don’t have universal healthcare. Are your BFFS in Congress going to fix that soon or are they busy banning a stupid dancing app?
Lmao “BFFS.” You love making me into whatever you want to rail against.
Congress didn’t ban an app. They requested data on where their information flows, and the “stupid dancing app” opted to leave the market instead of comply.
You don’t even know what the fuck you’re going on about haha
Haha did your besties pass universal healthcare?
Their personal data won’t be kept away from the CCP. People that use TikTok will use VPNs to do so if needed (TikTok also would no longer have to listen to the US government, probably intensifying the data collection), and otherwise the CCP can just purchase (or steal) the data from US data brokers, because those are still very much legal. Did we forget about Cambridge Analytica, where an adversarial foreign government used our own domestic companies against us?
I bet less than 2% of users use VPNs. They won’t have much content, if any, from domestic creators. They’ll only be interacting with the other 2% of American users along with foriegn content.
I don’t think people with enough brain cells to use VPN will are China’s target demographic, and I don’t think VPN users will constitute a fraction of activity you are suggesting they will.
I really like how you point out the danger of the Cambridge Analytica incident, but then bemoan trying to keep data harvesting away from a foreign adversary.
Domestic data policy drastically needs an overhaul, but we have to start somewhere. Also, Cambridge Analytica had a fucking shitstain president/administration running interference because they benefited directly from it. Glad we have accountability this time around.
I bet less than 2% of users use VPNs
TikTok users or in general? Either way, it’s higher than that, and will only increase with bills like this (and the many state-issued porn bans).
I don’t think people with enough brain cells to use VPN
VPNs aren’t hard to use, by design. Do you really think people need in-depth tutorials on how to press a button in an app? Also, there’s already people demonstrating VPN use on TikTok, for if the ban actually happens.
I really like how you point out the danger of the Cambridge Analytica incident, but then bemoan trying to keep data harvesting away from a foreign adversary.
You have very black and white thinking. I’m bemoaning it because it doesn’t actually protect US citizens. It doesn’t stop China from harvesting our data, and it doesn’t stop domestic companies either. But good try, trying to belittle the massive data breaches that have happened without TikTok’s help.
Domestic data policy drastically needs an overhaul, but we have to start somewhere.
Once again, this isn’t the start of that. Congress is more than happy to allow domestic companies to harvest our data, because half of the time they’re getting a cut. This will not open any doors for future privacy bills. The only possibility with this is that congress crafts another targeted bill to get rid of another company for whatever reason.
Also, Cambridge Analytica had a fucking shitstain president/administration running interference because they benefited directly from it.
Interesting that you’d bring that up, seeing as congress just set this precedent for banning companies right before that shitstain has a real chance of getting into office. Do you really want the Trump administration to pass a bill like this for another company?
That’s not how due process and liberal democracy works. The government has to prove you’re doing it. Setting any precedent that you have to prove you’re not doing something (an impossible task) is incredibly dangerous.
They passed the bill because someone is getting a cut. It isn’t to protect the public. If they wanted to protect the public we would have universal healthcare and a ban on guns.
I disagree. I listened when it was presented to Congress. I read a good amount of the data justifying the required transfer. If you don’t think this bill protects the public, there really is no reasoning with you.
Someone will get a cut specifically because TikTok chooses not to prove where their data flows. They had a choice, and chose to exit the market.
But sure, you can frame it like we forced them to leave the market, which isn’t the case. They could have verified their data flow and remained if they were not abusing it.
Unless it’s classified link it.
You can literally watch the congressional hearings yourself.
Here’s one video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhKX8zF2FQw
I watched it live, so I don’t know how complete or edited this recording of the hearing is. Talk to you in 5.5 hours after you watch the thing you requested.
What part do they talk about universal healthcare?
How is universal healthcare coming?
Taking longer than it should.
Any other completely unrelated questions you’d like to ask?
Unrelated? We were talking about protecting the public and you are talking about a stupid fucking app where people learn dance moves from.
Who are you brought to you by? Meta or Alphabet or Reddit or X?
It’s cute how you think that the only government that’s using our own data against us is china. Might want to step back and look at our own government, then apply your same line of thinking to all big tech companies in existence right now.
Exactly: banning TikTok is nothing more than a good start. We need to destroy Facebook, Twitter and Reddit next.
That will never happen, at least not in this way. Because it wasn’t anything to do with their data collection, or their company structure. Congress is happy to allow domestic data collection and want Americans addicted to American apps so that they get a cut.
You’re extremely dull if youre suggesting I don’t know data is abused left and right all over the place. But if TikTok is so bad it’s can’t even fit within our abusive system, it deserves to transfer or exit.
You’re missing the forest for the trees.
And you aren’t even reading what I wrote. In no post did I defend tiktok… I merely stated that what it is doing is also being done by american based companies and they should be addressed as well.
No doubt, but accountability starts somewhere, so why have a problem with this? Why not celebrate and then demand equitable action domestically?
“I’m not defending TikTok. I’m just bemoaning action being taken against them because bad things happen with other companies!” Not a great look.
Where did I say I had a problem with this? So much knee jerking in here. I am stating that lawmakers should apply these same laws to our own social media. The same lawmakers who will most likely profit off this decision.
Because this isn’t accountability? It won’t start any change with domestic companies, because it doesn’t apply to them. This isn’t the start of anything. If you think they’re going to use this as the starting point for actual privacy legislation, you’re very ignorant of how congress works.
Data collection will still happen domestically, and another Cambridge Analytica will happen, so long as domestic data brokers are legal.
How about we start with universal healthcare and then we worry about children learning dancing, right here in River City
Maybe they are dull from being sick due to the lack of universal healthcare
It’s cute how you think many of us haven’t applied that big thinking to all big tech. A Facebook, Snapchat, and Twitter ban absolutely should happen.
So you know exactly what I think about everyone else based on a single post to one person. Fucking Kreskin over here.
Kreskin
Damn that’s a really old ass reference, ok boomer.
You don’t have to be old to know history and pop culture references.
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So guess app just won’t work in US
The good ending
Except you can just…VPN to almost any country on the planet
Nobody is gonna use a VPN to get their TikTok fix. They’ll use Facebook Reels or YouTube shorts, since most content creators cross-post their stuff there anyway.
People on TikTok are already discussing using VPNs, so it will happen if not sold.
And either way, it’s almost like congress doesn’t care about addictive social media, seeing as it’s fine if domestic companies create addictive algorithms. They’ll even let foreign governments manipulate the populous via domestic companies, so long as they get a cut of the cash.
I will probably do it. Out of spite. Might even show my Congressional rep at the next town hall meeting.
You need more than a handful of brain cells for that, so it’s not exactly the easily manipulated target audience of TikTok.
Passing a law to give the executive branch overreaching censorship authority over the internet while simultaneously campaigning that the other option in the next election wants to use the power of that office to overthrow democracy. This is the “good ending”.
It’s almost like TikTok was given a chance to prove our data doesn’t flow to the Chinese government, and TikTok decided to exit the market than prove where their data flows.
But sure, let’s just pretend we randomly forced them out with an executive overreach lmao
Almost as if X altered an election and nothing happened. Must be the skin color of the owners.
In the U.S., we have given our third-party Trusted Technology Provider access to the code that drives the content you see - the For You feed - and we are on a path to allowing an unprecedented amount of third-party access to verify our source code and systems, something no other peer company has done.
https://newsroom.tiktok.com/en-us/ensuring-a-safe-authentic-space-during-times-of-conflict
I don’t see how anyone is hurt by losing access to Tiktok. The only sad part about this is that all social media isn’t banned.
You are literally posting this to social media right now. Do you think it would be cool to ban or force a sale of Lemmy to a US corp?
Is Lemmy using a predatory algorithm designed to enrich itself at the expense of the well being of its users and utilize its platform to influence US policy against its own interests? If that answer was yes, then absolutely. With Lemmy being of service to its users without making us its cattle, I’ll advocate for it as opposed to against it.
Does congress care about data collection and predatory algorithms, though? If so, why did they just waste their time crafting a targeted bill rather than actually making those practices illegal?
If congress suddenly decided that they didn’t like a company for whatever reason, they’ll craft another targeted bill like this one. Trump could win this year, do you really want this precedent set right before that?
Luckily, Lemmy is much more difficult due to it’s decentralized nature. However, since congress is clearly more than willing to craft targeted bills, it’s not out of the question.
You are on social media. You can leave any time, that was always allowed.
I see nothing wrong with posting to social media to advocate against it, I’ll feel free to stay.
Does your posting history bear out that that’s why you’re here, though? 🤷♂️ I’m not asking for you to justify it to me, it’s just silly to pretend you’re not participating in something you say should be banned.
My posting history bears out extensive shitposting and calling things as they’re seen. I don’t take any issue with Lemmy/Fediverse due to how they’re decentralized and orchestrated. I’m against predatory algorithms and user manipulation. I believe that the Fediverse itself will be a good thing until it becomes the villain, much like how our utopian social experiments usually go.
The company behind tik tok said
China. It’s China that “said”.
Healthcare? Nah, let’s fight about it for decades and never give people anything meaningful. Education? Nah, let’s make our people go neck deep into debt and still fight about it for decades. Ban TikTok? Hold my bribery, you got it. Gimme 24 hours and you got it, boss.
We can’t solve real issues because then we couldn’t keep the American populace overworked, sick, and unable to fight back.
You don’t want healthcare. Because we said so.
Too bad we can’t ban Meta, Twitter, and Snapchat while we’re at it.
won’t happen
Where do you think the FBI gets their domestic terrorist intel from 😂
TikTok will cut a deal to send your dick picks to Greenbelt.
Fuck IKR, call the cops because someone side swiped your car and you’ll get no response. Get on FB or Twitter and talk about how you’re planning a bombing and federal agents will show up at your house.
This is not a ban and it was never meant to be. They just force tiktok to sell the US market to a US company. Said US company will continue the platform just like it is at the moment, just with a bit more of that sweet American propaganda mixed into it. Tiktok won’t be gone, all that data will just go to the NSA instead of the CCP, that’s all they wanted.
China says they’re not selling TikTok, which makes it a ban, which is excellent news, actually.
Just as a reminder, we have been ‘fighting for 15’ since 2012. But when it comes to leveraging foreign companies with bans to force them to sell to US oligarchs we can move at blazing speed through the least functional congrss in recent history. There are two very different Americas depending on how much money you have.
Least functional Congress in
recenthistory
Even though i dont think banning tiktok is a good idea purely because of the concept, those boards are funny. “Tiktok changed my life for the better”
They’re also all printed, and with the same font. I’m assuming it’s a stock photo, but if that’s from a real protest I don’t trust those protestors.who the hell gets a protest sign printed?
Its because the company literally paid shills to stump for them in person, call Congress, etc.
literally paid shills
No *one outside of some influencers were paid lmao. People contacted Congress but they weren’t paid, and a quick Google search brought up zero result of people being paid *outside of the influencers. So I’d love to see where you’re sourcing this from.
Edit: Correction - about 30 influencers were paid to visit events for Tik Tok. I’ll rescind saying that literally no one was paid: that’s point is wrong. My main point was that average users weren’t paid to call into Congress. And the vast majority that called in or have talked out against the ban did so of their own volition rather than being paid as implied by OP’s comment
let me duckduckgo that for you
Literally the first result on ddg: https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-rally-washington-chew-testimony/
Other reports from different sources:
Its because the company literally paid shills to stump for them in person, call Congress, etc.
The way it was presented was that they paid average users to call Congress which is disingenuous. I’ll admit I was wrong when I came to the influencers being paid for in person events, but that’s only a smaller group of people and events. The vast majority were not paid and did so of their own volition.
Edit: Didn’t realize OP and the replier were different people. That’s also on me.
What are you downvoting me for? I didn’t write that post lol…
BTW, you might want to update your correction: According to https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-rally-washington-chew-testimony/
While some influencers report paying their own airfare to Washington, everyone we talked to took the free hotel. It’s unclear precisely what folks were offered as part of the trip to Washington, but seemingly everyone got one perk or another. Beyond the more than 30 influencers in attendance, along with their travel buddies, WIRED counted 10 other people who were, in one way or another, at the Capitol on behalf of TikTok.
30 influencers and their plus ones and 10 other people are paid. These are only people that wired has talked to, so there might be more people being paid one way or another.
And “everyone we talked to took the free hotel”: everyone wired has talked to has received some benefit from tiktok.
I don’t really know the scale of the rally, but seeing the rally photo from different sources: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dc+tiktok+protest&iax=images&ia=images , it seem like most cameras are pointing towards the same 15 people, all with signs distributed by tiktok.
I don’t think I will be as confident as you about the size of the protest. Even if there were 100 people there, that still means over 50% of the protesters received direct compensation from TikTok specifically for this protest.
Lots of protests actually. It’s not hard.
A lot of people started their businesses on Tiktok. The Tiktok algorithm is actually way better than that of Instagram to reach your target niche. A lot content creators and marketing exes do realize this.
I don’t understand the mentality of users, of course of obviously older generation here, that realize Tiktok did in fact change a lot of people’s lives. It’s not just an app for dancing.
Let’s not forget the Tiktok Shop section.
If social media apps exist to slurp up as much user info as possible, and they do, then it makes sense to be concerned about the government that they’re subject to.
Why is it okay for domestic companies to collect the same data and sell it to China, then?
This shouldn’t just affect foreign companies if it’s about data collection. It should have been an actual privacy bill. US citizens’ privacy will be no better after this.
It’s not ok.
But the fact is that China, North Korea, Iran, and Russia are adversaries of the United States, and the US government is justified in its concern.
They didn’t seem to care much when Cambridge Analytica happened, and that was a foreign adversary. So what’s different here?
The United Kingdom is not an adversary of the United States. In fact it’s one of our closest allies. But, if anything, that suggests this law isn’t enough, not that it’s too much.
I meant that the data they collected was breached by a foreign adversary, thought that was pretty clear but guess not.
And the fact that a foreign adversary obtained this information was very bad, agreed? Clearly, it makes sense to take steps to keep that kind of information out of adversarial hands.
Yes, my point was this only affects one of them. It doesn’t fix the root of the problem, because that’s not the bill’s target.
In fact, if TikTok remains, and does get banned, it just makes it so they no longer have to listen to the US government for anything.
and that was a foreign adversary
The bill has a list of Foreign Adversary’s and neither the U.K. nor Cambridge Analytics are on it.
A foreign adversary was responsible for the theft of the data that Cambridge shouldn’t have had. That was what I meant.
I saw that farther down in the chain which is why I came back and deleted my comment.
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Will there be a TikTok dance on TikTok that covers this event?
The Tiktok dance to end all Tiktok dances. Literally.
Its all to get around passing a real privacy law with teeth.
lmao, they don’t want a real privacy law, they want to have a monopoly in spying on Americans.
Americans are already being spied on by the Chinese!
TikTok is nothing more than a Chinese misinformation farm/spy ware.
The spying is going to happen no matter what we do! If I had to pick the lesser of the two evils I’d rather have America spy on me than China!
Why do bots! Love exclamation marks! So much!
I’m convinced that US lawmakers believe that the pro-gaza sentiment is coming from TikTok. The timing, the mechanism. They see themselves as no longer able to control the narrative and are blaming ‘non-US’ social media.
I’d like to point out that the US has been publicly going after TikTok since the Trump Administration so I’m unconvinced that the timing lines up.
I think it’s more so just about controlling narratives in general. Tiktok has a lot of real time tracking of politician corruption and trades. A lot of good useful info for political activism, etc.
So did Twitter and even in the Pre-Elon days the Federal Government didn’t go after it like this.
And yet it finally got the momentum to succeed now, during all these Gaza protests and when the US-Israeli mainline narratives have been starting to break down for the first time.
Here comes POS billionaire like Moron Musk to buy TikTok and turn it into Nazi propaganda machine
Nah, it’ll get sold to a company registered in the US or Europe that is funded by various shell companies and private investment groups, most of which will be owned by Chinese Billionaires.
Tiktok helped my life for the better 😀… LOL. Sure but it is also a Chinese company that can do things to turn your life and the life of everyone around you into living hell if the government do wishes to.
I think what I would want my relationship with the Chinese country to be like is just simple transactions… I give you this money and I buy that thing. Done, end of transaction. I would like that for all phone tech companies actually. None of this shit about updates because they sold me a shit phone. None of the here’s 8 features, then an update leaves you with 3 features only.
Twitter/x is owned by an unhinged South African billionaire and Middle East oil Barrons. We can discuss the theoretical abuse of TikTok, but X is damaging our democracy today.
Fuck them both!
Straight into the garbage.
Meanwhile everyone has already forget when Cambridge Analytics used Meta and Facebook to influence voters into giving us Trump worn the hell of Russian propaganda. The hypocrisy is so blatant They just want only US oligarchs making money and they want to be able to censor things young people are seeing nowadays from around the world. Every other excuse is a screen.
It seems like a lot of people think moves like this are about actual national security like congress claims,
I mean to an extent it is. America is mad China has a platform that’s popular with Americans that they can’t control. The effects of this were shown with the fact that America couldn’t control the narrative over the Israel-Palestine issue after October 7th. So to increase national security and try to gain back the control they had they’re getting rid of TikTok.
A lot of people on Lemmy are just… old.
This thread made me realize this.
If this bill passes and any of you criticizes China/Russia for banning Facebook/Instagram/Twitter etc… under the name of “lack of freedom of speech”. I will be laughing. A lot.
They should have taken the harder route. Something like requiring all software that uses algorithms to manipulate their users to share their algorithms with an auditing body, or to provide a manipulation-free environment otherwise. Every time a change is made, that change must go through the auditing body. Of course Meta, Apple, Microsoft, Google would have a hissy fit, so such a thing would never fly. Or just ban algorithms that manipulate users.
An outright ban of a particular piece of software sets a terrible precedent in an increasing Orwellian future. They didn’t even ban Kaspersky when Russia attacked Ukraine, they just all said, “you probably shouldn’t trust this, but keep using it if you want” and that’s software that has full access to a computer at a very low level.
I have news for you, China has already banned everything and if any western app exists in China, it must have its servers in China and it only works in “cooperation” in a local chinese company(which has complete or partial ownership of the chinese part of the app). Have you ever heard the Great Firewall of China?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall
In fact, both facebook/instagram and twitter have been banned from China.
I hope this doesn’t come off as inflammatory, but are you saying we should be more like China?
That’s basically what the US asked of Tik Tok. They wanted their servers in the US (so they did) and then they wanted them in cooperation with a US company (which they did, Oracle I think it was). And it still wasn’t enough. And now everyone is clapping as the US becomes more and more like China.
They already have. Please spend some time learning about China.
Since you didn’t back up your statement, I’ll assign you to the category “Is generally angry and just looks for places to project anger.”
So dropout, now that you’ve been informed that China has been doing this shit for, well ever really, are you going to be critical of China?
Banning?
Yeah thatll go over well with younger more democrat voters
TikTok will just be owned by a different company. It will still exist.
